Joe Troyer 0:49
Hey everybody, it's Joe Troyer, and welcome to another episode of Show Me the Nuggets. I'm bringing you guys a guest that I've known for going on a year now that I had the pleasure of meeting inside a closed door mastermind. So in just a couple of minutes, I'm going to bring him on and then is Michael Borgelt. And I'm really excited because Michael and I come from a lot of the same background, which you guys will discover in a little bit from his experience in building and growing a white label digital marketing agency to now jumping into the SAAS world. I'm super excited to have him on so without further ado, welcome Michael to the podcast.
Michael Borgelt 1:27
Thanks, Joe. Thanks for having me.
Joe Troyer 1:30
Yeah, but so right now obviously you run 51 blocks, you help build that and now scale that we're going to talk about that a little bit on the show. And we're also going to talk about w help WP Help and Bionic WP but before we do that, man, give us a little bit of background, how did you end up in this crazy digital marketing world now owning a WordPress hosting company and a WordPress SAAS crazy journey.
Michael Borgelt 1:58
Yeah, it is. It is. It is Honestly, I usually start back in college days when I used to play college basketball, but I was going to a computer science major. And everybody would always say, Hey, have fun at the nerdery. Right? And I'd go off and hang out with all my buddies, that were computer science majors and, you know, honestly, SEO, digital marketing, I feel like it's the perfect mix between somebody that has a computer science, mind and business, right or marketing. It's the mix between and that's kind of how I started started in 2000. Helped rank the website mortgage one on one for the keyword mortgage, the first page that obviously I didn't own helped help do that. And then started my own agency in 2009, after I finished pursuing a refereeing career, I would say refereed division one basketball for a while and then actually made it to the NBA during the 2009 strike season, and did that but then launched my agency in 2009. And I've been running it since 51 blocks and I think as we're going to talk about in a little bit as the transition out of that into another venture that we've started in the last six to nine months. So that's kind of the, I guess the high level story
Joe Troyer 3:02
so that's awesome man and if you were sharing your screen right now I'm sure that you'd show the legendary picture of you and Kobe right now.
Michael Borgelt 3:09
Yeah absolutely got it always got to have that especially now with everything that's happened with you know, Kobe in general it's like actually gives me so much more appreciation for that guy you know, just to obviously what how everybody's felt about him even though he was a fierce competitor. Everybody loved him, right and even in a even in a strike, referee game, preseason game. He was still coming at me. Even with even with all of that, so that's the level of intensity never wanted to lose. And I respect him for that for sure.
Joe Troyer 3:39
Yeah, man. That's awesome. We'll have to link up in the show notes a picture that image for sure. So we'll get it from you and link it up. But it's but it's epic, man. I'm very envious of that for sure. So cool, man. Tell us tell us about the start of 51 blocks. How did you end up starting 51 blocks. That is now you know, one of the premier white label SEO and just white label resources out there in the community.
Michael Borgelt 4:02
Yeah, I mean, I was working for Mortgage One on One, it got sold, we were still helping run it. But then I saw that hey, there's other ability to help other agencies and me and another man started another company and then I broke off and did this thing but we found other agencies reaching out to us to be like, Hey, can you help our agency do this stuff so and because, no offense but I suck at sales right? So white label is like perfect for me, right is it's right in my wheelhouse, somebody else can go do the sales and I'll do the fulfillment as a computer science guy. I'm an introvert, right? I don't like, love talking, obviously, you know, being on podcasts super outside of my comfort zone. But as a business owner, you got to do those things, right? You got to do those things you don't love to do. And I mean, obviously referee in front of 19,000 people, same kind of thing. But you put yourself in those places to help you grow, right. And that's kind of what all this is even as you run your own agency, but that's kind of how it started. just kind of, I mean, it's funny as those are the days where you could change Google My Business. categories and you'd rank in five minutes. Exactly it was it was amazing. It was like gosh, this is the easiest work I've ever done. Right, people would be astonished that was even like personal injury lawyers you could do that with right and get those types of rankings and it was a fun fun time back in those days of when we first started off and kind of slow growth like in our group there's a guy who runs the group you know, is a three or $4 million agency that's what I should be right? But because I wasn't aggressive with sales or those types of things that's why I'm not right I'm roughly one one and a half million dollars a type of white label agency that we run. But you know, that's because I didn't I wasn't I didn't execute sales at the level or as good as it is you as even You are right. So
Joe Troyer 5:43
I love I love what you said about, I wasn't good at sales. So I built the white label agency. Funny. If you ask my business partner, Rob Warner, why he started invisible PPC, it's literally the same thing. Like people started coming to me they started asking me if I can do it. I've never even done it before? I said, Yeah, sure I could do it. I'll figure it out. Um, and fast forward you know, he, you know, built invisible PPC, but he says the same thing. It's like I wasn't very good at sales obviously Joe that's why I'm now partnering with you, And you know that that's why Invisible PPC was built. So I think that's really funny, man.
Michael Borgelt 6:20
That's why I love actually watching you present like because you and I present at this pretty much the same time all the time now. Yeah. And it's fun to see. Like just how good you are at that right? Like just to watch and to like pick things up and like I got when I used to play basketball or referee. I used to pick people, things from people's game that you want, right? Oh, I like that. I'll take that right. And that's kind of what I do when I watch sales presentations or when you do your thing to.
Joe Troyer 6:45
so thanks, man. I appreciate that. It doesn't mean it's any easier either. Right? Like I'm still an introvert at the end of the day. Like I don't like those situations. I don't like speaking to this day. I don't like even getting on this podcast. I get anxiety and it's my freakin podcast right? Want to put yourself in the situations that you want to be in. And ultimately, there's no better way to get leverage than running a podcast, running webinars speaking in front of people, many, like it is the way. And so you got to get out of your comfort zone and you got to do it. And I love. I love the reference back to basketball, you know, you pick the players that you want to learn their moves, you see what they do well, and you imitate, and you copy, you know, that that's how you get ahead. I love that.
Michael Borgelt 7:27
Yeah, and I mean, anything in SEO or even anything we're doing. It's not like we're reinventing the wheel significantly all the time, right? We're just being better at execution or things like that. And that's where it's like, oh, I really like what that guy did, oh, I don't like what that guy did that blah, blah, blah. And you're adding those things to your tool belt all throughout your process is kind of how I look at it.
Joe Troyer 7:45
So let's dive in a little bit to 51 blocks tell us about the journey. We're kind of the key components that you have in 51 blocks, how do you kind of run the business day to day and then Michael, let's talk a little bit and I know there's a lot all at once, but then let's talk a little bit about you. Your transition out and when that started kind of where you're at right now?
Michael Borgelt 8:03
Yeah, and I think that's actually I mean, the point to be where it's at, because I'm going to talk about the most important person in that a lot in this section. And that's Brittany. Right? Brittany is she started and within three weeks was our operations manager, right? She started as an account manager. And within three weeks, I saw the potential that she showed how much better she is at managing people than I am. Right. So Jim Collins talks Good to Great right people right seats, right. I'm not a great manager, right, having her in that spot and managing people. That's what she's great at. And as we've kind of grown and moved along, we identified that, you know, this is something she wants to do and run the agency and I kind of want to go off and do this other thing. So we actually recently even in the last three or four weeks, picked off the time when I'll be out and she'll be in right and it can be within three to six months, but like my sister who does a lot of is pretty high up in some some businesses and stuff, she talks about success and success, succession planning. A lot of people don't do this properly and giving you enough time. And that's kind of what I really wanted to make sure that her and I had enough time. And that, you know, she's learning and to be in those situations now as we have conversations, Brittany, what would you do? She asked me a question, what would you do? That's my first question back to her right. And then kind of us working back and forth between that, but she is, I feel like one in a million, right. She has lowered the level of my stress significantly. And, you know, that's why sometimes as small business owners, we may not want to pay people a certain level but she is priceless. Right? She could she is she's one of the best I've ever interacted with and what she does and she's amazing and she takes on any challenge head on. And as you know, I can't say enough great things about her to be honest. She's very bright, very brilliant. Bounce great ideas off of her I think, you know, I don't know it's just she's she's she's everything you would want in somebody that's going to come in and do this for you. I think, at least that's all from what I know. Right? So
Joe Troyer 10:04
yeah. So you give her a lot of credit, man. And it's awesome to see. I'm curious, like, if you were talking with another entrepreneur who hasn't found that person yet, what advice like would you give them right? Because in your example, and I think you give her a lot of credit in the story, but you say like it all happened by accident. Yes, but not all right. Some of it was had to be your leadership as well. But what would you tell somebody that was in your shoes if you look back, and they're looking for that ops person to run it day to day and to do the better job that is the better fit and the right butt in the right seat? What What advice would you give them now looking back?
Michael Borgelt 10:49
I think the biggest thing to think about is I mean, for me, my values might be different than even yours, right? For me, hard work is the number one most thing that I'm not the smartest guy in the room. ever trust. may have not right. But I, I work harder than most, right. And that's why I've been successful. And that's for me was a measuring stick that she had to match for me, right. So whatever those values are for whomever I think they have to match those values because you'll then always be like, well, this person doesn't do this. She works hard, right? Did she work as hard as me when we first started? No, but she has she learned like how I expect the work to be done. And then she's taught me Hey, Michael, we don't have to service our clients every email on the weekend when they email in you don't have to do that. Right? You're not giving good work life balance to our employees to yourself all of that right. And it's taught me things so having the ability to make sure you also be open you know, you know your weaknesses as well. And listen to those people that you trust and I trust her. And it's just going through those those battles you have right when she was an account manager and seeing how she managed clients and those types of things and defusing situations. I was like, Wow, she's good at that, how do we continue to leverage that? And as her and I work together, we kind of we figured that out. So she, you know, I, I think it is like it's funny. She told me she applied to the job the first time and I didn't hire, right. And then she applied again. And then she hired, then I hired her, then I saw the like, Wow, she's really good. Right? So even I've made mistakes on somebody that's as great as she is. So I, I mean, I don't I can't sit here and say I have like, because people ask me, How do I find out? How do you find a Brittany? How do you find a great ops manager? Well, I think it's trial and error. I offered the position that not to run the company, but to be an operations manager, it's two other people and they both didn't work out. Right. So then she came in, she's worked out she's been really great. And then I was like, hey, do you want this, this bigger thing for this succession type of thing? And she was like, absolutely. So it gives her the ability to run an agency that's kind of set up instead of, you know, having to lose all your hair like I did and to start the agency just to get up running those late, I remember in San Diego when I was first started this thing I was working 6am to 2am, right and on weeks on end, just to get the grind, get the going, stuff like that. Now I obviously don't have to do that as much because I have the people and the people to help me in that space. So
Joe Troyer 13:16
you said something interesting, and I want to unpack it and see your thoughts on and see if it was meant on purpose or not. So many things like aren't meant on purpose. And then you're like, Oh, yeah, that makes sense. So you said that you had hired tried to hire somebody for operations two times before Brittany, right. And ultimately, it didn't work out obviously, because now Brittany runs operations for 51 blocks. She had to go through her ad account director account manager role before she went into operations. How much of a how much of a telltale sign Do you think that was like her doing well, and her understanding the customer before moving into operations,
Michael Borgelt 13:57
I think is huge. I mean, because I'm very customer service focused. So that has to be something that that person has to understand as well. And I mean, she just has this ability to tell people, they're not doing a good job in the nicest way. Right? When I tell people that it's like, I've, like I tore down people's world, which I asked my wife, I can bring her in right now she's at home today, right? She, she, she doesn't ask me if she looks fat in those jeans ever. Right? Because she doesn't want to hear the answer all the time. Right? But she, she, Brittany, you know, just has this amazing ability to do that. And when I saw that type type of thing happened, I'm like, wow, that's special. That's a gift that not everybody has that. And the other people didn't match up for various reasons. Maybe they didn't have the industry knowledge. I think that's very important for me is if you're going to be an operation manager, you can't just take an operations manager from a flooring company and have them can be an operations manager in a digital marketing company. I think that I don't think that works. We always hire somebody from their passions of digital marketing and come up with That's kind of what the thing was with her. Right? She was new in digital marketing. She was a great account manager, I have no idea why the other guy let her go. Right or why she left, right. Like, at the end of the day, I don't think that growth was there for her. And that's what she wanted. She wanted to grow. She knows what she wants, and she goes achieves goals. And I think that's very similar to me, right? You want to go go get it?
Joe Troyer 15:19
So, yep, no, I completely agree to anybody running operations that can run a company truly, and grow it and scale it, they're looking for no ceiling. Right. And if they see a ceiling, and it's not removed within a certain amount of time, it's gonna depend a lot on the person but they're gone. You know, I can tell you that from hiring, you know, really good COOs or operations people too. As soon as they see that ceiling if it's not removed, like they're checking out, they're looking for, how do I continue to grow as a person and it's so connected to their role? right? In a company because they make it everything right. So that's, that's really interesting. Cool.
Michael Borgelt 15:59
Yeah. I think as we as I let leave, I'm just going to say, as I leave, I think I'm gonna continue to help with 51 blocks in areas that I'm really good at. I'm pretty good at lead generation. And then some speaking her and I together, we have a chemistry that's really good. And in the speaking world that we want to continue to leverage. So I'll still do that part of with it with her, but the rest of it will be 100% with her. So it's really not like a marketing assistant person. It's definitely not somebody that's just, you know, running running the company.
Joe Troyer 16:27
So I actually am going to model you at the next mastermind event. Speaking of modeling, and I'm going to do a co-presentation this time, because I saw you and Brittany interact. I thought it was really cool. So you guys were really, very well done. So as you start making the transition, obviously, you're focused on kind of lead generation speaking, presenting anything like that, that you can do still for 51 blocks as you start to, or continue to work on your other projects and companies. I'm curious what what are the KPIs? That that your tracking, how are you managing Britanny and feeling okay with it, right as an OCD entrepreneur, really caring about customer results and satisfaction. And, you know, you're like I am, you know, hard work is very important, but results and customer service are just as important. You know, I know that you care a lot about this business. So how do you start to remove yourself from that? What are the KPIs that you use to say yes, like everything's okay.
Michael Borgelt 17:35
Yeah, I think we're starting to work on those. Now. We actually, I mean, just for like, actual numbers themselves. We've actually switched to using Stripe as a payment processor, which then we're putting into the Baremetrics, which shows you a ton of information about your business and I know people say hey, that's just for SAAS, blah, blah, blah. I don't think so. I think you can use it for your agency as well to see real numbers about average lifetime value, average customer churn, your revenue churn, your user churn, those things are completely different, those types of numbers are very important to know. So we're starting to monitor those now. So that over the next year and a half to two years that we have a good baseline so that we know hey, this is what we should be expect, there are certain revenue goals we need to hit, obviously, within reason. And then there's really, you know, at the end of at the end of the day, it is about profitability, right? She's got to maintain, you can't say, Hey, I'm gonna continue to run the business and then all of a sudden, my profit goes to 5% 2%, right or negative, right? So there's certain profit goals, she'll have to hit inside of that. And then anything above that will be a great like we're actually setting it up where we get to X number of profit, and then after that, her and I will be very close to splitting the profit. Right. So she gets her salary up to a certain number salary exactly, because I grew the agency to be x right? Even before her right. So I still get that profit, but then after that, okay, she's drawing it. So now Get she gets half of that. And that. And that's another thing back to the key question of how to find people like this is she was very much on board to be like, okay, I'll take a lower salary and take the risks. So now she's thinking more like a true entrepreneur where, hey, salary for me isn't guaranteed every month, right? Where you have to like she's thinking, Okay, on the flip side, if I make more money, if I make the company more money, and I keep my margins low, I'll make more money. Cool. Now she's starting to think like a business owner and stuff like that. So as we as we kind of go through those KPIs of, you know, revenue, and then turn and client happiness is a revenue or a KPI that we're keeping track of, you know, obviously, you don't want a huge churn or even upset clients and things like that. And that's where she really is. She's really great. She's great at talking to clients and, and doing that type of stuff. So
Joe Troyer 19:47
that's awesome man. Makes makes total sense. I love that you did the I bet that she'll hate me for saying this, but I love that you did the baseline and you didn't just give it to her. Right? Because the respect that she'll have at the end of the day when she hits those targets and we know that she'll hit them. Right? Yeah, it's like her point of view will be completely different. So I love that you weren't just like, Alright, you made it. congrats. Yeah, yeah, you got to make up you got to make somebody work for it. And her respect level that will be completely different her appreciation to.
Michael Borgelt 20:18
because I made her I made her jump into sales for the exact same reason, right because as an operations manager, sometimes we forget how hard it is to close a deal. So she's had to go out and do that. And she's realized now Wow, it is hard to close deals, get them in the door. So we got to do everything we can do to keep them and she's learned that over the last year and a half.
Joe Troyer 20:36
So now there's nothing like that firsthand experience, right? Whether it's fulfillment, learning sales, or sales, learning fulfillment, just the flip of the coin, so that they can see what the other side or who else in the business they can experience. You know, their pain their frustrations firsthand is is is
Michael Borgelt 20:54
a lot less bickering between the two once you do that, so
Joe Troyer 20:58
yeah, we we've found, I've found in multiple businesses that I've been a part of that there's always some type of sales versus fulfillment conundrum, right? Always. And yeah, one of the biggest ways to deflate that quickly and to make it go away, is to make them respect each other. And the way that we found best to do that is to make people basically play the other role, and to cross train. And it takes time and it sucks. But I really get a respect for it, right? You get something running fulfillment that's like a operations person and you teach them or make them go through sales training and actually make a sale. Like they're going to be very happy at the end of the day that they don't
Michael Borgelt 21:44
Yeah, exactly. I think that's that's very smart to do that for sure.
Joe Troyer 21:48
Yeah, that's awesome, man. Let's talk about why in the world, you would be starting something else besides 51 blocks you, like you said, you were starting shifts at six o'clock in the morning going to bed at two o'clock in the morning. you built your dream, so to speak, you built this agency, you, you, you, you check the box, right? You built this seven figure business. you're successful by all accounts. What the hell are you doing?
Michael Borgelt 22:21
Yeah, good question. I don't know. So, um, I would say, we're entrepreneurs at the end of the day, right? And the shiny object does get us now I do think like, I was also recently part of another company that started that grew from zero to 3 million to 8 million that just sold, right. So having those types of conversations, those types of things is different than the daily grind of running an agency everyday. I've ran 51 blocks for 10 years. Right? I'm coming up on our 11th year right now. So it's like, what am I like, how much more Am I gonna learn in that space? Right, and I really want to continue to learn. The other thing is, I see see the other thing we're starting as a huge, new in our, in our in our in our world of SEO and SEO and in WordPress right. And that's a that's kind of why I started it I actually think it's like SEO now I think it's hard to get into because there's so many people doing it. You want to you want to harder industry try to get him into hosting. it's it's it's it there's tons of huge players there that you have to overcome all of that. And it's a it's it's difficult, but I think there's a huge, there's a huge missing need in that niche. And that's what we're trying to fulfill in that space.
Joe Troyer 23:37
So lots of follow up questions after that one. I'm trying to think of which order makes the most logical sense. All right. So if you had to sum up in like one sentence what what your interest is or why you're diverting your time, from 51 blocks to something else. Would you say that it's like boredom, but boy Um, I mean, it's it's a different opportunity. Plus it's learning something new. And it's that adventure. Is that why is that why you think for
Michael Borgelt 24:08
I think it's a challenge, like it's a challenge. It's like, Hey, this is something that's not necessarily boredom. 51 blocks challenges me every day. Right? But it's, or it'ssomething new but the it's not boredom? I don't I think it's more like just a new challenge, a new thing to start. I mean, I've done the agency to, you know, one, one and a half million continue to grow that, how do I, I think this business will be actually bigger than that other one, right, once we're done, and we'll get there much quicker, because of what we're building and what I see the need in the market. And nobody's nobody, like how many times do you go to your hosting provider? And they say, hey, talk to your developer, right? That's like, those are curse words in our new company. You cannot say that, right? Like you can't say go talk to your developer about your issues with WordPress or your hosting platform. Now if we have to say that we're going to point out the line of code and save this is what you need to go talk to them about because of this, right? So we're going to, it's the service, taking their agency service to the hosting world is kind of what we're trying to do, where the truly managed WordPress hosting is what we're saying is coming out, right. And that's where it comes from is taking our agency world experience of service and bringing it there because I tested 42 different platforms of hosting providers before we went with Google Cloud, which is what we decided. And that's because of this partly because of the service, obviously, the speeds but the service has to be there, right? Like, we're getting free consultation from Google right now an outside company that Google is going to pay for so that we're set up properly. That's the way you do business. Obviously, Google's got money to do it, but they don't have to. But they do that because they want somebody like us to succeed. So it's like, No longer will I go to GoDaddy. Get on the phone be smarter than the first two levels of people that you talk to. And then finally talk to somebody that actually knows their platform and can answer my question, because that's what we're changing. That's what we're trying to change. And that's face and then obviously having blazing speeds like our tagline is, come for the speed stay for the support, right? That's what we're really pushing for because the speeds will blow you away. Support will be what why you stay.
Joe Troyer 26:11
So that's awesome. All right. So I want to dig into that a little bit more. But what I got from what you just said, was ultimately, a bigger opportunity, larger opportunity. And so you see the vision for it, and you can see it when you talk about it, your eyes light up. And I definitely see like you said the challenge. So I love that.
Michael Borgelt 26:33
so to answer your question that have been a much shorter way to do that. Yes.
Joe Troyer 26:37
Not at all. No, that's good. And sometimes it's hard to explain, right? Like I've been asked the same question like, why did you become an owner in Invisible, why did you just invest in this? Why are you now an owner in that and most of it is a combination of either challenged to some level vision to some level, or another thing that you hit on which is if a solution that the industry needs. And I'm not going in investing in stuff outside of our industry Really? Right. And so I care about my customers, right? And if I see that they have a need and it's not being met, like you did 41 hosting companies or however many, it doesn't matter if it was 20 or if it was 40 It's ridiculous. Like, there's an obvious need, you know, I want to be the one to solve it. Right. So I love that man. That's awesome. So, um, let's talk about how you ended up inside of WP Help or Bionic WP. And tell us what what what are the differences between the two and tell us kind of the next stages of the story?
Michael Borgelt 27:39
Yeah, so about almost a little over a year ago, I hired a gentleman from Pakistan. His name is Abdul, right. And he used to be the VP of growth at Cloudways. So if you're in the hosting world at all, you know, Cloudways he helped them grow pretty significantly right? And somehow, to be honest, that like, lightning struck twice, I have Brittany and now I have Abdul alright. So Abdul comes in and within the first week, a year and a half ago a year and a month ago, he was like, we need to, we need to build this platform. And I was like, dude, you're crazy. We're not doing that. Seven months ago, or four months, five months ago, we build the platform. It's like my wife when she puts seeds in my brain. And then I'm like, Hey, I got this great idea. And it's really her idea from, you know, six months ago that I'm talking but that's what happened, right? I was like, Hey, we should build this platform. And he's like, yeah, so he started to build it. And he he, I mean, the ramp up period that how quickly we got to where we needed to go because of his knowledge of the hosting world and being inside a Cloudways and understanding all of that as has catapulted us way in front of get to a level that we that we wanted to get to. Very quickly now. We started the company is called WP Help. Now that is going to be a self service platform that's going to be Bionic WP. That's technically it's got a soft launch last week and in the next 30 days will have its first beta version. launched at the end of September. So that then the name will completely transition at that time and move to Bionic WP. So that's kind of the two different names. And the reason we chose Bionic is because kind of half man, half human, right or half human, half machine, I mean, and it's like, that's the kind of results we get is kind of like it's unreal, right? So that's kind of the position where we're trying to do it. And I mean, if nobody else even cares to read another website, go read Bionic WP, we're a little bit edgy on kind of what we're saying and talking and the words we're using, like we're kind of being like, not your normal copy of a hosting company as well. It's kind of like, like, Hey, what's this feature? Hey, we don't even really know. But the team told us we had to put it on here because we need it right. And we don't even really understand exactly all like just kind of humor like that all throughout the website. So
Joe Troyer 29:50
that's awesome. Cool, man. That's super exciting stuff. I keep it real with real with my audience, and I always keep it real with everybody. So I got to say it and I'd say it To in person, but how the fuck are you going to compete in the hosting space? One of the most commoditized spaces out there? Like, dude, you got some big kahunas? What's your point of attack? Like, how are you going to stand out in the industry?
Michael Borgelt 30:14
Yeah, I got to figure it out. Now I feel like our service. Like I said, I think the speeds in the service and the pricing, we're also we're doing a little bit of a disruption through the pricing because if you go to like our competitors, our WP Engine, Flywheel, Kinsta, those people, if you ever go there, you have to buy a plan of sites, right? You have to buy, hey, I'm signing up after the first one. It's 30 sites. But what if I only have 10? Now I'm overpaying for us we're paying by site, right? So that's going to change the pricing of the industry in that space similar to how resellers kind of sell it at the lower level host. But you're going to get like the service of Kinsta Flywheel, managed services, keep your core theme plugins all up to date, keep 90 days of backups, all that type of stuff, right so much more advanced, much more hands on type of stuff. And I think with service, we'll be able to show a little bit of that. But I also think these features and the cost the price point, like Abdul even talks about it, he's like Cloudways talks about leveraging Pakistani people because of the price point, right? They're able to offer lower costs because it's cheaper to have people over there. So that's where our development team is. That's why our pricing is gonna be as competitive as it is. It's cheaper than Flywheel Cheaper than WP Engine Cheaper than Kinsta. And there's more features inside of it. So that's, that's, that's how we're gonna try to do it.
Joe Troyer 31:33
That's awesome, man. So if somebody is watching this, and they're interested in working with either of the companies, how would you tell somebody to decide between the two right, like either Web Help or Bionic WP? How do you How would you guide somebody
Michael Borgelt 31:50
in the next 30 days? Yeah, yeah, the next 30 days you won't have the option you'll just be going to Bionic WP. So after that, it's but but we will still offer a level Where hey if somebody wants advanced support where we're taking the edits from because that we do that for some clients they Hey edit this on my website that that will still offer that at Bionic WP even though it's more of a self service platform, we're still going to have that service aspect it'll just be an add on. But like I said in the next 30 days, we're just going to redirect the site and now it'll go over to Bionic WP. So
Joe Troyer 32:22
I'm just reading in my show notes. I guess I should have read them before the whole episode.
No, you're doing great. Yeah, you do awesome at these things.
Haha. My podcast host found out that I've been I've been snoozing man on your YouTube videos. So I guess throughout the whole process, you guys have been doing like a little weekly. Here's what's happening. What the hell, man?
Michael Borgelt 32:42
Yeah, yeah. So every week or we try to do it every week. It ends up being about two or three times a month, where we just talk about what we did in the week, right and launching a SaaS business because I think a lot of people want to do it and they don't understand like all the things you have to work through to do it. Like everything from me becoming an owner in a Pakistani company, right, that takes a lot of work. And there's a whole thing that has to happen as to how to hire a development team overseas to then creating the design to get it implemented to doing sprints and what we call the MHP. Right? Minimal Happiness product instead of an MVP, right? doing those types of things, just a lot of things you can learn. I mean, it's boring, probably listening to Abdul and I but I think there's a lot of good information in there to hear about it.
Joe Troyer 33:29
So no, man, I think that that's super valuable. I wish I wish I had something to listen to like that. When I was just starting or when I was going through the steps that that you guys were, you know, I can't tell you how many times I mismanaged, mishired, you know, fired way too late. A developer, how many times I was 30 k 50. k into a project and literally started from scratch again, or what developers call refactor. You know, one of our platforms, I refactored five times before and it's never even been updated from the refactor. So I paid for it five times and never went public because I was never happy with it, five times.
Michael Borgelt 34:11
I did the same thing. 80 grand on my side one time. So you got to be willing to take those chances, though, to get to where you want to get right. So
Joe Troyer 34:19
you do it. You do, but there's so many clues, right? You live and you learn like anything else, like hindsight is always 20/20. And you're like, Man, I wish I would have seen that one come in. Yeah, that was a hard one. Right? So I love that. We'll definitely link that up in the show notes. Definitely something to check out. I know. I'll be checking it out though. I know that a ton of people in the mastermind that we're in together are using you guys for hosting what's possible what's possible in terms of speed, right? Because that's what you guys focus on. You come to the speed you stay for the service. What do you guys see in in terms of possibilities? Like what's what what is possible using a service like yours?
Yeah, so um, There's extremes like sites that load in 30, 40 seconds. So now around two seconds, so we can take that type of off of it, or a site that loads in seven or eight seconds can be under a second. So there's lots of variation in there. But I almost am always willing to bet anybody that 100 bucks that you just try us, and if we don't beat you, I'll give you $100. Like, that's how I know it's kind of cocky. But it's like, that's how confident I am after we've tested after we've done this over 1000 times, right? Every time it's faster, I think there's been two times out of our actually nine, I think it's nine or 10 times out of the thousand websites that we moved. seven of those being ones we couldn't move because of custom programming. And caching doesn't really work very well with custom programming. So we could not do that. And then two where I've been like, that's, like GT metrics sometimes shows better sometimes somebody else right. So with that kind of track record, you know if you can hit 99% like Why will you know, I had nothing ever to lose when people and we do it for free, right? We'll do a try before you buy you bring your site to us. We'll try it. Show you the results. If you like the results, we move forward, there's no risk for you to start with us at all.
What what kind of benefit then should people expect from the improved site speed?Right?
Michael Borgelt 36:20
I know that's a. That's a great question. We get that all the time.
Joe Troyer 36:23
Like it's kind of annoying, right? Like just waiting for a site to not load. I get that. Right. And yes, it should be fast, right? Like I get that. But what are the benefits Really? Like? What should somebody expect? Like?
Michael Borgelt 36:35
Yes. So based on the case studies that we've run, we've seen a 20 to 40% increase in users. Now our total sessions not total users, right? So that's different, right? So people come to the site, they look at more pages. So 20 40% increase in that an 18 to 30% increase in conversions, which obviously you and I care very much about right within PPC and SEO is In general, so that's that's a huge number. And then I can't sit here and say it's 100%. SEO movement guaranteed, because there's so many different things you're always doing with SEO, you're launching content, you're changing content, whatever you're doing. So some of those things do affect it. But what we saw with one of the main guy was, his site was stuck at nine for six months, put it on our platform in two weeks, it moved to five, about three or four days later, it moved down to seven. And now it's stuck at number three. Right? So we saw some good movement in the SEO, I can't sit here and say, Hey, you'll always see this amazing movement. But if you think about what Google wants great user experience, that's all they really care about, other than all the money that they're making on paid search, right? But great user experience is what they care about. And speed is one of those first things and it's actually one of the only ranking factors, they've actually come out and said, this is a ranking factor. Pay attention to it, right. So that's why I was like, gosh, why wouldn't I go do that? If Google actually saying that it is and now, no other people want to say, you know, I've seen studies by other backlinking companies saying it doesn't matter. Okay. I think we can all agree a site takes longer than three seconds people leave, right? Talk about, you know, our short attention spans now, it doesn't you have to have a fast loading site is and if you don't, then you're gonna you're gonna have conversion issues.
Joe Troyer 38:24
So yeah, I mean, if you're losing users, that's not good, obviously. And, you know, I'm, I'm positive that, you know, usage signals from from visitors are a part of the ranking factor of Google is hundred percent bouncing all the time. Right. I mean, obviously keep track of it with PPC, it definitely goes into your page, or your quality score, you know, your bounce rate. It's got to then I believe, be factored into then organic. And so if you got a slow loading site, and it sucks, you know, people are leaving, they're bouncing. You've got you got to think that that's being courted. Dig into, you know, the factors.
Michael Borgelt 39:02
Yeah, that's exactly what I believe as well, all those metrics Google is looking at inside of Google Analytics and Google Search Console is part of, like, how smart was that for them to give away analytics to then collect all this data to then make better decisions for their users? Right.
Joe Troyer 39:18
quick fire here, we're gonna wrap it up. Got to get in a couple more questions. Ben. What's the biggest takeaway that you would give somebody going through the SAAS building journey so far? Right, what would the top one or two takeaways be like, man, if I just knew this? Right? It's, you know, I would have saved myself some money. I would have sped up the process. I would have saved myself a bunch of heartache. What would you say?
Michael Borgelt 39:43
I think having the right person in the seat, right like I'm huge. Is he passionate? Right seat. You know, right person. Passion has to be a big thing. Like with Abdull. He's up. He works. 20 30 50 hours in a row. I'm not even kidding. and like he loves it. He's like, I'm sorry. So geeked on hosting blah blah blah blah blah speed this stuff so having the right person in that seat is the number one thing and that's that's hard to find. But when you find it you know it if you start looking for it if you look across your agency, you're like that person is a right person right seat. And that's that's like you you're you're great at sales. You're good at it, you're personable, that's a right person, right seat, right? And you start seeing those things. That's, that's where it's like, wow, yeah, I know. It's hard to tay people, that's the biggest thing. Well, it is. I'm sorry, but that's, that's why that's why we're gonna have great growth because of Abdul knew it, and he's passionate about it. So
Joe Troyer 40:37
yeah, makes perfect sense, man. All right. So last question. Instead of asking you to recommend three books, which I feel like is like the end question for every podcast. I like to do something a little different. I know that every entrepreneur that's on the show is going through a different journey. Is that a different place in their life and so I like to ask based upon where you're at right now with 51 blocks and your WordPress journey. As you look at your two businesses and what you have going on in your personal life, what's the one book that you think has made the biggest impact on the way that your business is sitting, acting and behaving right now,
Michael Borgelt 41:19
the one that's on my desk, right? Product Like Growth and the reason like it's not personal. So I'm a little sad of myself that I didn't come up with something better than that. But it's great. Obviously, it's product. So it very much fits what WP Help is, but for 51 blocks, it's changed even how we like we're going more towards a productized service at 51 blocks, right? So instead of just providing a service, it's productized. Right? SEO is Seo you do the same 50 things on every campaign over time, right? And that's kind of what it is. And that's what this book talks about. And that's what is really great at the Wes Bush in that in that book, does it I've listened to it four times. I don't read books that Listen to him. Right. So I've listened to it four times, though, so I'd recommend that one. Wow.
Joe Troyer 42:04
Yeah, definitely check that out. I'm an avid book reader. I used to go through Audible, I find that I actually for some reason, reading the words, it sticks better in my head, I can remember it better. I don't know, it seems like Audible. I can tune it out pretty easy, especially going 1.5 and 10 minutes later, I'm like, wait, what just happened? Also, like with a book, I don't know, I feel like I'm either going to be like voracious with it. And I'm not going to put up with something that I don't like either. If I pick up a book, and I don't like it, I can't make myself finish it. If I if I listen to something on Audible, and it's kind of like eh, I'm like, it's just another like six hours and then paying attention during those six hours. Like no, selfishly I like to ask this question about the books because I know like you said, you read it four times, chances are I'm gonna love the book as well. So, so thanks for the recommendation.
Michael Borgelt 43:05
Yeah, I would just say this. I'll challenge you to read as many books as Abdul does. He says he read something like 100 and some a year. So it's insane. The dude, the dude cranks out books, he's always got recommendations on that stuff. And he's the one that taught me that if you start a book, you don't have to finish it, which was very hard for me. Right. And I think that's a great point. If you don't like a book, put it down and go to the next one. But for me is like, I start something. I have to finish it. And that's not what has to happen. So
Joe Troyer 43:32
yeah, no, no, that's a great tip. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up. Michael, man, this has been great. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming in, sharing story your takeaways your journey. It's been awesome. We'll make sure to link up to your companies and all the cool stuff that you guys are doing right now. in the show notes. And man, we'd love to have you back in the future.
Michael Borgelt 43:50
I appreciate it. Joe, thanks so much. You're You're awesome at doing this. I got lots of lessons today on how to do it. So thanks,
Joe Troyer 43:57
man. See everybody. I hope you guys enjoyed another episode of Show Me The Nuggets. Do us a favor and leave us a review it would mean the world to me and to the team to Michael to everybody else. Have an awesome awesome day Joe Troyer signing out
