Tyler “Sully” Sullivan is the founder of BombTech Golf, an eCommerce store that’s sold over 400,000 golf clubs and generated more than $20 million in revenue. He’s also the co-founder of EcomGrowers, an email marketing agency that has helped countless eCommerce stores generate an additional 6 to 7 figures in sales.
In this episode, Sully shares the story of his journey as an accidental entrepreneur and walks us through how he’s able to run a uber-successful 7-figure business while just working 6 hours per week.
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Joe Troyer 1:12
Hey everybody, it's Joe Troyer, and welcome to another episode of Show Me the Nuggets. Today, we have on Tyler Sully Sullivan, and we're going to talk about how Tyler grew a business that he actually started in 2012, called Bomb Tech, which has sold over $400,000 or 400,000, golf clubs, generating in excess of $20 million in revenue. And I really want to talk about how he grew to 8 million a year in revenue. But more importantly than that, retaining a life and having a life and, and how he was able to work just six hours a week and we'll jump into his agency and everything else. But without further ado, man, welcome officially to the show Sully.
Tyler Sullivan 2:00
Glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Great intro. loved it.
Joe Troyer 2:03
Thanks, man. Super excited to have you on I love. I love the background. I love that you retained a lifestyle while growing multiple businesses. And I'm like super, super excited just to jump in. So let's start by giving us a couple of minutes just kind of intro and telling the audience about how you got started in this crazy entrepreneurial journey of digital marketing and e commerce.
Tyler Sullivan 2:30
Yeah, so I'm an accidental entrepreneur. I had no vision of this at all. 2011 or 10, I was trying to compete in the homerun derby of golf, which is world long drive. And I wasn't that good. But I had won a local competition. I hit a drive of 360 yards. And was just I was in love with it. So I started actually breaking golf clubs, not on purpose. But a local club builder couldn't build them properly. So I started assembling clubs on my own. And a buddy's like, Hey, can you make me one? I was like, Sure. So I made him a golf club. And I made the world's worst website. It had like cartoon characters on it flexing. And then I finally sold something. And it took me like eight months, and I sold one, one club. And I was on a boat. And here's my first epiphany. And it's not a yacht, it was just on a boat on Champlain. And I said, Wait a second, I just made money, but wasn't working. So it wasn't related to time. I mean, obviously, I put in time. And I was the first like, aha moment. I'm like, I just want to do more of that, you know, and then I did. I was a slow learner. But I used Facebook, and just started documenting my journey as I started designing a golf club with my local college where I barely graduated. University of Vermont, I joke, you know, it took me five years to graduate I was just a ski bum and played rugby and whatever else. But from there, we designed a golf club. I documented early days, Facebook has some engagement and just was able to scale it up. Once ads came out. And I my big epiphany there is I was working literally 20 hours a day, seven days a week. Because I had to I was fired from my day job. So that's the second epiphany, I go deeper into how I went from doing all the wrong stuff to doing what I'm doing now. But it's accidental journey. super lucky to be here doing what I love And now own two companies.
Joe Troyer 4:29
That's awesome, man.
Fast forward to today, real quick. You said you own two companies help us understand the other, the other company what you guys do? And then we'll go back and kind of jump into Bomb Tech and the journey.
Tyler Sullivan 6:30
Sure. Yeah. So like, again, this is another accidental not, I just fall into these things like, I guess, but you do good things for a while things just happen. Right? So during my success with Bomb Tech, you know, we started having articles, you know, written about, you know, the revenue from doing the growth and Klaviyo who's an email marketing company, ESP. We I'm doing really well with revenue driven there. And they did a case study on Bomb Tech. And I started getting messages from different ecom brands saying. Hey, can you help me with this? Can you help me with that? And I always would say no. So I was like, I'm already grinding. I've got no interest to do that. But my first employee, Chris at Bombtech, who was running my email, who was like the most motivated, hardworking person ever, he was working legitimately 100 hours a week. On his own regard. He would ping me I'll never forget 2 in the morning leaving the bars. Like, bro, have you seen the conversion rate on the website tonight? Like, who is this kid? He's like, 22. He was running my email. We were crushing it. And I wasn't paying him a ton because I was you know, it's we're still grinding. And he says, Hey, can I take on some of these potential clients and try to run their email? I go, dude, I would not like, I would like nothing more than you'd be successful. So I said, if you want a side hustle, I'll support you in whatever you do, man, like, let's let's let's do it. So he got three clients, closed them, and he like doubled or triple their revenue in 30 days. I said, Okay, you're legit. Let's partner up. So that was three and a half years ago, we since partnered up, and he's in the business managing seven employees. And I help him I'm like the process mapper, I try to build systems, and really do podcasts like this to get exposure for that agency. And now we have broken seven figures. So that's our first goal with seven employees, and we're super profitable. And now we're just trying to go from 32. We work specifically with ecom brands doing email, most of our clients here in between two and 20 million a year. And now we're just trying to go from 38 clients to our goal this year 66. And then 150. So we're trying to scale up to 300 in the next four years, and it's been a very different journey from e commerce, but a fun one, you know?
Joe Troyer 8:53
Yeah, man, that's really interesting. We'd love to pick up on that a little bit later. Once we talk about kind of the BombTech journey. Comparing comparing the two is very interesting. I played with ecom I've played with kind of the more traditional agency side, I've played in the in the info and publishing space, and all the benefits are very different. And, and the end the drawbacks on all of the companies for sure.
Tyler Sullivan 9:16
Very different beast for sure.
Joe Troyer 9:18
Yeah. 100% cool, man. So where the heck did the name Bombtech come from?
Tyler Sullivan 9:24
You know, I, I remember, I was like, I'm a really bad artist, but I like to like doodle stuff. And I was just drawing a golf club and then I drew a golf club that turned into a bomb. I just said wouldn't be cool if we had clubs that would bomb it deep with technology and just came up with bomb tech and trademarked it and it just you know, the first club is called the grenade and you know, I just came up with it, man. I don't know just a lot of this stuff. I just did because it was fun. You know, I had a full time job at first and it was just a side hustle. I had no intentions of being anything. So everything I did was coming from a place of not expecting money, not expecting income, just having fun doing stuff that I enjoyed. And it allowed me to really hustle dude because like I ended up working so much, but it never felt like work because it's, it's golf as well as doing anyways, it was just something I loved and learning about and growing it. So I feel like that's a big trap I see a lot of people do is they like try to get into an industry they don't know. And like I had a like a short stint trying to sell something else. And I was like this just it just felt like work from day one. So like I had a vision of doing skis, because I'm a huge skier ski like, I was skiing like 50, 60 days a year, just went yesterday. And it would it wouldn't feel like work, you know. So that's where I come at. It's just like, do what you love, and try to monetize that. And I came at it with no monetization, expectations, and it just worked out.
Joe Troyer 10:50
That's awesome. So how do you go from like, jumping into it kind of falling into it? Literally having you know, cartoon characters on your website drawn out a bomb, right? Having having the grenade be your first like product line. I love that, by the way. How do you go from that and such like humble beginnings to selling 400,000? like golf clubs. And I know that that's a huge, but what's the 80/20? there?
Tyler Sullivan 11:16
Yeah, it's crazy. So like, yeah, the volume of clubs, still blows my mind, like this year, we're trending to do like 400,000, just this year. So it's like, we're, we may hit a million. And it's like, I used to hand assemble these clubs, man like, and literally a big day back down to like five clubs. So it's like, it's really hard for me to even like, fathom what we're doing, because I never had this expectation. But for me, I was, I was fortunate that I just started putting myself on content. And it was timing. So this is 2012. So I started just making videos, really bad ones like in my backyard where I'm hitting golf balls. And some of that content, early days, took off. Like I had one video where it sounds like a bomb goes off, and I hit it so hard. And I boosted it for 300 bucks in 2013. And it got 300,000 views 10,000 comments. And what I did is I took that as an opportunity. And I commented on every comment. And this is like early days, man. So like the engagement was crazy. And like 2000 followers or 2000 likes was real. Right? And you started document was doing asking advice. That's the other thing I did by accident out of necessity. I was like, What loft do you want to play? What color would you play? Like? What like just asking questions I needed to know. And it got my audience involved in the building of it. And so when they when it came out, they felt like they built it because they did. And then from there, I just document the journey. And then I use Facebook ads when ads came out. I ran them poorly. Like it was so bad. But I knew enough that I got to our first mil. Right like 400. My first 500 k was pure hustle, doing all the wrong stuff in blogs in forums at the time, just like chatting up sending clubs out, then we're Facebook ads really hit is when we start to scale. I got to 1.2 million solo with no employees was working all day every day. And then I hired an ad guy which took me 12 ad guys. That's another story. I have a vetting process now. But we went from one to 4 million to one year. That was our first big jump. So now it's, you know, now we do so many things post purchase, but of all things it was, you know, documenting, and then using a platform that was working for us at that time, which was Facebook and just running paid traffic.
Joe Troyer 13:33
Awesome. Cool. I'm curious. Obviously, you you've grown really fast, you build a crazy company. I think most people's aspirations start there. It's just about the revenue. It's just kind of about, Hey, man, when I get there, I'll be happy. And that's what I need. And that's what I want. But then you get there and you're like shit, like, this isn't what I need. This isn't what I want. I want the lifestyle to I don't want to be getting the calls at four o'clock in the morning saying we got a problem. You know, how did you tame the business? How did you grab ahold of it? You know, Eduardo, our researcher and podcast host was able to find that, you know, you you're working in the BombTech business about six hours a week, like How's that? How's that possible? And obviously, it's a transition. But how's that possible?
Tyler Sullivan 14:20
to two big epiphany is man and there are six and three now. My kids really were the there was like three big moments The moment I got fired when I got fired the week before Thanksgiving. When I found out my wife was pregnant with my first kid and that was the hustle moment where I said I got to figure this out where we had debt. I had like it was it was the most stressful year of my life, right? I worked all day every day doing a lot of the wrong stuff, right? So when I started to have success, and we're doing seven figures a year I started hire employees and started delegating. And when I had my second kid, instead I'm taking six weeks off. So I took six weeks off and sales actually went up, because it forced me when I just said it out loud, like, I'm gonna take six weeks off, it forced me to start delegating all my stuff. So now I have it set up in such a way as to direct employees in house to do customer service. Then I have a small, very small network of experts and a guy. I've got an ad guy does Facebook and Google, I've got my email agency, e commerce, which is my email and SMS fulfillment center that ships an SEO, you know, agency we use and an inventory guy, and they're all siloed out as experts, right? So they've got very clear things are not on, they're not on payroll. And they're very, what's the word? They're not fixed costs per se, like, so we can they are variable costs, I don't have a ton of overhead. But really, it was that that six weeks stand where I said, holy crap, I'm not that important. And it freed me up and allowed me to think, bigger, I still work like I still love working and but I do stuff that's bigger than lever, right? So like, I don't work in the day to day stuff anymore. Like I haven't, I don't reply to customers, emails, I don't take the phones, I don't ship products, I don't run the ads, I don't send the email. So I don't really like the email for marketing. And I don't do the SEO. So I don't do any of that. Because I'm not that good at it. Really, you know, so I call myself the coordinator. So I've got these key people, I just coordinate them. And really, if they're doing their job, and they're hitting KPIs, I don't need to be involved. And to transition that, like the agency, I'm working more on that because I'm not in it. building systems. So we can do the same thing for my partner, Chris, who's in it grinding doing what I did at BombTech, and I've had that experience. So try to do the same thing. So we can scale and free him. But it's it was a evolution that requires two kids one job being fired, being fired from one job to really say, Okay, I'm not that good at this stuff. Get those people in the right place. And and most of what I do is I test golf clubs. So I'm like, the unofficial product tester. And that's the funnest part, man, you know, so I do work on strategy and stuff. But it's, again, it doesn't feel like work now, you know,
Joe Troyer 17:12
I agree. Moving the big levers, I don't think really feels like a ton of work, either. That's what I enjoy. And then you got to pull playing with golf clubs on top of it. well one.
Tyler Sullivan 17:24
Joe Troyer 17:26
you said basically, your job now is coordinator. And ultimately, you know, you mentioned KPIs, obviously, managing KPIs. So it's, it's really about the right butts in the right seat, so to speak. You mentioned that you came up with a good ad vetting process, I'd love to hear kind of what that entails, man, because we we started a new venture this year. And we went through three guys, four guys. And like, that's what I do, like this company is, is an ad company that runs ads for agencies for their clients. And it still took me that right, like, so I feel like there's always some some Nuggets to take away from hiring and vetting. And after 12, man, like, I'm sure you got something right.
Tyler Sullivan 18:12
You know this was one of my biggest mistakes and learning. So I didn't know enough about ads to know if you're doing well or not. So I had a guy in place that a man he was killing it for us. We had our two best years with a three best years with him. Like when we were starting to scale. And in January of like, 2016 17, I can't remember the year, I fired him based on gut of like, he wasn't grinding. He wasn't working. Little did I know, looking back, we were at a six x return on adspend. So that was the biggest mistake. And that was that whole year was a total mess, because I ended up going through 12 agencies, and I ended up learning ads myself. And I'm not like a technical smart guy like in the weeds. So I was like taking courses, hiring coaches, like PPC coaches, and like screenshare. So what I ended up doing is I hired two agencies fired them because they sucked. And I said, This isn't working. So what I did is I said, anyone that thinks they can beat me. So I ended up getting us to what a was okay for us, which is a 3.5 on a return on adspend. On my own efforts, I said, I invite anyone who thinks they're legit, to go head to head with me. So what I'll do, I'll pay you an hour of your time. And we'll do a screen share in my account, we'll go through exactly what you do. And I'll build it. So you tell me the strategy, the whatever, you can look at my account before if you want time to prep but your one hour I'll pay you whatever you want. I paid some guys a lot of money. I paid some guys not that much. And 12 guys later, the 12th guy came with some real knowledge and he's like, Hey, I'm gonna beat you. And here's why. And I set up an ad and he beat me. And he's been my ad guy now for three years and he kills it. So that was how I just said, Hey, and it's fine. Some of the guys that were pounding their chest the most like I am the king of PPC and Facebook ads. They came in and they build like a campaign and it was a complete flop. And when I said, Hey, what happened, they're like, I don't know, man, like they couldn't even explain. So it was a lot of, that's how I do it, man. So anything I do now with an expert, I do a screen share where they get paid. And hopefully, it's two part. Hopefully I find an expert. And if I don't, hopefully I learn something or learn what not to do. So that really was for me. And luckily, I know enough now that if something happens, my current guy, I could do this process again. But at this point, I can look in and have enough knowledge. So it's got to know enough to be dangerous, and then have people you know, put their I don't know, their money where their mouth is, I guess.
Joe Troyer 20:52
There's no other way to say that quote, and I'll pick nobody. There's not another good analogy. I thought that decision, do I say that? I don't know.
I love that. I love that. I love that you use the expertise and kind of coaching session did not only teach you, but also see can that get a better result then then the current than the current test? Right, then what what's happening right now in the business. So that's fantastic. I love that idea. So this year has been nuts, obviously, for e commerce for the last, you know, 12 months or so we had Ezra Firestone, Big E comm influencer on towards the beginning, first couple of months into the pandemic. And he had said that according to what he had seen with with his own business and the agencies that he works with, and the e commerce brands that he had saw about a 40% increase in ecom growth. And he thought that really that fast forwarded where where we were about five years in the industry. Obviously that's that's a huge shift. But I know lots of e commerce businesses as well, that that wasn't the case. Or they did way better than that. I'm curious kind of what your takeaway is, how did how did COVID affect you? How did the pandemic affect you? And kind of what's your thought or outlook moving forward?
Tyler Sullivan 22:15
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, I feel weird, because we're having more success than I ever thought possible. And because I want to celebrate with everyone, and I feel like the world is hurting, you know, so I'm just wanting to get everyone, you know, healthy, safe, as soon as we can, because it's like, it's so hard for me not to enjoy and hang out with my buddies and, you know, celebrate some the wins because like, our e commerce brands, like, I think 90% of our clients are all having record years and some are having like 1000s of percent growth, like we've got some, you know, food delivery companies that are just like hitting numbers that are just mind blowing, right and like, for my brand, you know, golf man, I would have been up to 200% last year if I had the inventory, I kept selling out I couldn't even keep up. So this year, we're projected to grow another to double again. We're gonna double this year based on how quick we're up like 80% in December 80% in January, and we're still sold out so it's it's so good for E Comm. It's so good for golf. It's so good for our agency, and it's just, you know, that's the thing. It's like you always want to start a business based on what's trending golf has been trending down for 25 years. I just been doing this I loved it and time and happened to be good. And same with eco,. Like, that was a natural thing for me to do. I had no who could predict this was going to happen, you know, so it's I hope we're just back to real life as soon as possible. But it's a golf has been a true pandemic. I wouldn't say saver but it gives you a place to go and like, last year, this time or 2019 I walked to my local club and just walk on a course now I have to get a tee time two weeks in advance. So it's it's crazy. And I'm seeing the same thing with skiing and our clients so it's it's great industry to be in I just want to celebrate with the world in a safer and happier place, man, you know, that's all I really want.
Joe Troyer 24:14
Yeah, for sure. We saw a really big I live in South Florida. So man boating and any type of stuff. motorcycles, motorcycles, dirt, bikes, four wheelers, anything like that just went absolutely nuts. But yeah, crazy world. And I like what you said I just want to be able to celebrate with everybody. Definitely a time that it feels weird to be doing well for sure. And very, very segmented or segregated as well. Or super strange. So there's a lot of people obviously, that have been retail that have been very much in person selling things and now we're wanting to make a shift to as they would say digital and e commerce. And I've never been there before. And you come from a unique background because you were never there before either, right? Like, you kind of got in by pure happenstance and just kind of stumbled into it fell into it. What advice would you give to somebody that's, that's in golf right now or in something but but in a more traditional sense, local sense , physical sense. And now is looking to make the shift into digital? What would your advice be?
Tyler Sullivan 25:33
I used to have these conversations like way pre pandemic, and every time I did with someone had like a traditional store, like my parents used to have a diner. So I'd be like, yeah, let's get some emails, let's do a giveaway, let's send an email, like free coffee or whatever. And they did. And like the one time they actually did it, they crushed they were super busy. And to transition that online, it's one of those things where like, if you told me in 2012, I shouldn't ship the clubs myself and say, You're dumb. You're You're wrong, you know. So it's like, I think everyone has to have their own epiphany. And this, this is kind of it. And I think it's probably a hard transition. I can't get back in that mindset of I'm all in person. That's all I know of how to even do that. But I think you got to go. I think the ones that pivot and really embrace it are gonna win, but I feel like it's it's not one that they're embracing, at least from what I've seen with, with zealous they're not like, Yeah, let's go online, they still are waiting for to come back. I don't know, because I have never had a traditional retail store. But I mean, it is what it is. It's online. And I was online before so I think it's just embrace it quicker than later. And those that can adapt and move are going to win. So I mean, learn how to do email marketing, get even get all your current customers, send them handwritten notes. Like and say, Hey, man, you know, we really appreciate as a customer, I know you've been in the store before we're going online. Here's our new website, here's a coupon or something. I don't know what that is, or like, Hey, can we get your email and start building that list and making money with Shopify and clay? Vo? Anyone can launch a website right now, like free easily, which was not the case when I started. So I think doing stuff that probably takes take some effort, like, move slow now to move fast later. So do stuff that kind of sucks, like, called maybe call every one of your customers? I mean, how many customers do you have in traditional retail? Maybe 1500 2000? I'd call them up like, hey, it's Steve from whatever, the store downtown, really appreciate your past business man, we just launched a new website. You know, we're delivering direct to you were whatever, love just to get your feedback, get your input, or tell me what you want? and have those candid conversations? And, you know, make that transition? I would do the stuff that doesn't scale to then make it scale, you know?
Joe Troyer 27:55
Yeah. gotta hustle first. Yeah, get it working, build some momentum. Makes perfect sense. All right, man. Um, earlier, we hit on a topic that now that we've kind of talked about both business models, I'd love to chat about so. So you got the e commerce business, you got the email marketing and SMS agency that was built out of, you know, your first business, which is just great. I love that I love when you're able to spin something off like that, keep doing it for yourself, and make it a whole new profit center and new business. You were smart enough to catch on to that and really realize the benefits, which is fantastic. I think a lot of people don't they get scared, they want to keep it all and they kind of keep it locked up. I'm curious when you look at your ecom business, and when you look at the agency business, what are the pros? And what are the cons of each? Like, what what do you like best about each model? Or is there one that you would say like, I like this for one reason?
Tyler Sullivan 28:52
Yeah, there's so different. I mean, the big thing is like e commerce Bombtech is much more scalable, right, in terms of my time and effort and people. So like, we can do a day where we do 120 k in a day. And all it takes is an email and SMS and you know, some ads, right? Whereas the agency, you know, we got 32 clients or whatever it is to take on five clients takes time and effort, right and you need more people. So ecommerce is more scalable in terms of time, effort, and people, but it is much more difficult from cash flow. So like yeah, we had a great year last year, but also have $2.7 million in inventory coming. So I just sent out pios today or wires today. of $500,000. Okay, so like, it's not all roses over there, like and luckily I've been doing it for nine years so that we have we have profit and cash to invest again. So we don't have a lot of low we have no loans, we're debt free. But anytime you grow like we're in a growth period, I have to invest heavy, so we're going like all in to then grow again. So Whereas the agency, it's really human capital, right. So like, I'm trying to take what Chris, my partner has done so well, and process map it out of his brain, because we're still early in the systems that can scale without him. So that's been the hardest thing is like, I see a lot of agencies that get stuck, our self included, like the 10 to 40 client range. And we're really trying to get to be the best clay vo agency in the world and have three 400 clients. So we're just be kind of trying to become world class at our systems, world class at hiring, world class a training, so we can scale it up faster. So it, I wouldn't say that, that jobs, or that companies more rewarding, but it's more traditional, you're more people, we have seven employees, we're going to grow to 20, and then 40, and 60. You know, so it is a little more rewarding, because we have more people. And I like that even though it is more difficult. So it has that part of it, which is really, it's new and unique to me. So it is more fun, because it's newer, I guess. But really the cash flow there is amazing. So we run really high margins. Because we run lean, same concept with eecom. But with people, but the cash is all there front. So we don't have to pay for inventory. So it's, it's a much more like easier business to enter, like, starting a golf club business is kind of insane. Like I cashed in my 401k I was doing millions are doing a million and had no money. Because I had to go, I didn't realize what cash flow was. Now like, yeah, I'm rich, I did a million dollars. And I'm like, Wait a second, I'm broke man, I had to go buy a new product, and we're growing. So it's very different. Both are good in their own respective ways. And I wouldn't change anything for the world, I just, I'm excited about the opportunity to try to scale the agency and make that such a dial then system that we can get, because there's agencies out there that have 2000 clients. And that's what we'd like to do. And it's cash flow wise, it has freed me up a little bit mentally, and emotionally with only having one company because when I'm all in Bombtech, it's like every decision so pivotal, I can't screw this up or do that where I now have two incomes, which I never thought I'd ever have. It just frees me up to make better decisions in each company. Because they're not because they both drive profit and cash, right? And say, Okay, I'm not going to die, or I'm not going to starve. Rather, if I if we don't hit this number this month, it's just, let's really take a step back and do what's good for the people do what's good for the customers and do what's good for the business. And that that's been the most freeing piece of it, you know, I don't know, bomb tech wise what the future holds? I mean, because every time we grow up, I grow again, do I want to go and spend 7 million on inventory to get the next level? I don't know if I'm that guy. So so we'll see it because every year I was kind of doing the same numbers and keep it lean. And now we're really growing. So I'm like, a different battle man. So it's a it both are great. You know,
Joe Troyer 33:10
I love that you did a really good job. I think in upacking both and what you like and your concerns are the challenges are, I think that the barrier to entry and the agency model is is amazing. Like there isn't one to get, you know, to get some really good monthly recurring revenue to is not that hard, a lot easier. And the cash flow, but it splits off spoils a lot of people, I feel like I miss space. And so I feel like they don't have to go through a lot of the challenges that traditional, at least traditional e commerce companies do. And they don't have to really dial in all their numbers, like an e commerce company does. You know, I've played in e commerce a couple of times in different ways. And man, the math, the scale is scary. And one little tweak right or left in cash flow. Like you said, doing a million dollars a year and you're broke, like and not just you but any econ business, it's pretty crazy. The compare and contrast the models, not to say anybody shouldn't do eecom but it's a completely different business at the end of the day.
Tyler Sullivan 34:22
Very true, man. It's a it's a different beast, you know, and that's why it never felt like work. I didn't have, you know, goals in terms of do it and it's paid me well, and I'm so lucky to have the customers and clients we have. And yeah, it's it's a, you gotta have an appetite for risk, you know, in terms of cash, man, and that's the it will never go away if you're growing. So that's the thing. Anytime you grow. You need cash, man. So it's like, it's a very different model. So I'm really excited to I would like it ideally, and this may not be possible. I think we can do it. I should say we can. Can I surpass my ecom business with the agency Cuz that would be like, such a different level. But it does take different systems and stuff. And yeah, it is. We were working on our books to be dialed in to have monthly p&l on every single piece of every business. So we can make better decisions, you know, that's the next level is like, just get to a point where it's so dialed that we can clearly say, Hey, listen, that's a marketing 6% more, whatever. But right now it's I enjoy the building and growing and I get entrepreneurial ADHD when stuff is like running well and smooth. So I'm like, dude, I gotta do something I need to do. Let me go to work, you know?
Joe Troyer 35:36
Now I get it, for sure. Man has been awesome. I really appreciate you being here. This has been a great interview. I love comparing the both sides of the coin, both business models and talking about how you got here. Such a great story, man. I want to wrap it up and asking instead of asking you I feel like every podcast at the end, they're like, tell us, you know, your favorite three books? I like that question. I read some books. Don't get me wrong. But I like to ask it a little bit of a different way. So I asked, What's the one book that's made the biggest impact on the way that you do business, the way that you look at business, the way that you approach it, maybe the way that your business is look or structured? What's the one book that that has made the biggest impact?
Tyler Sullivan 36:19
Glad you asked me now I hadn't read a book and like, I think my whole life until I swear to God, I didn't now I bang a book like one or two a month. The biggest one was enough by Michael Gerber. It's like I was already starting. I already did that stuff in my econ brand. But like Now what I do is I take books like that I read them and then I give them to my partner because he's stuck in it. So like, right now that book is just even though it's stuff we're already kind of doing high level, get out of your business and it's just a reminder, so that books just been awesome.
Joe Troyer 36:51
You just gave me a little takeaway there man that was really good. Give me a writer downer. The giving it to my partner right is key. One of my business partners, we exchange books all the time, but one of my business partners we don't we never talked about that. And so that was a nice little takeaway. Definitely love that and Michael Gerber stuff is is good, you know, working through being the technician then becoming the manager then kind of moving on to being overtop of it, you know, as a as an investor, or some type of more senior role like that. So, man, Sally, this has been great. Thank you so much, man. We'll link you guys up in the show notes. Both of your brands, appreciate you coming on man. It was a pleasure to connect with you.
Tyler Sullivan 37:33
Being a mass exodus. I appreciate it. You got it, man.