Dave Jenyns is the founder of Australia’s leading SEO agency, Melbourne SEO Services. In 2016, Dave hired a CEO and successfully systemized himself out of the agency. He then started side hustles that would later become SystemHUB and SYSTEMology, two process-driven businesses devoted to helping entrepreneurs build systems to free themselves from day to day operations of their business.
In this episode, Dave walks us through his journey as a serial entrepreneur and shares a seven-step program designed to turn an owner-centric-zero system business into a well-oiled machine.
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Joe Troyer 1:03
Hey, everybody, it's Joe Troyer. And welcome back to another episode of Show Me the Nuggets. I'm super excited today to be talking about two things that are near and dear to my heart, SEO and systems and processes and automating your business. And I have on a special guest today that I'm excited to pick his brain about these two topics, Dave Jenyns. So Dave, welcome officially to the show.
Dave Jenyns 1:29
Fantastic. Thanks for the invite Joe. Looking forward to it.
Joe Troyer 1:33
Yeah, so we're gonna we're gonna go with a working title today of a really The Seven Step Program to Build the Ultimate Success System for Your Business. My team did a bunch of research on your background, and told me about all kinds of crazy stuff that you guys got going on. From your SEO Services, your podcast, Systems Hub, and Systemology. Could you do us a quick catch up on Dave Jennyns, and how you landed in this crazy world of SEO and digital marketing as we know it?
Dave Jenyns 2:07
Yeah, for sure. So just started off straight out of school thinking, I wanted to make as much money as possible. So I went and took out a loan and did one of those weekend, learn how to trade the stock market type courses. And then I got to the end of that weekend and realized, hang on, you kind of need money to trade the stock market. And here I was with a big loan, living in a two bedroom flat with my mom. So I then just started getting online and trying to learn about well, how can I make money looking for different money, making money, opportunities, jump from one thing to the next. And I ended up co authoring a product in the stock market education space with someone that I'd met on that course that I did. And the product was great. I mean, we got excellent feedback on it. And one thing that I very quickly found, it's not enough to have a great product, you also need to then get that product out in front of the right target audience. So I got very interested in online marketing and went through all of the legends looking at direct response and some of the early days of Internet Marketing and search engine optimization. It was, you know, just early 2000s. So there was still, SEO just wasn't where it is today. Like it wasn't talked about educated about promoted, it was very early days. And it meant there's a huge opportunity. I marketed that stock market education, product for a good number of years. And then they change some rules here in Australia around what you what they considered financial advice. And you needed to be licensed to be selling the type of educational material that we had. So at that point, I built up a pretty big team, my business partner decided to head at direction I headed in another here I was with a team of outsources, and part timers working from home scattered all over the world. And I thought, well, what am I going to do with this team. And then we thought, well, let's apply all of this knowledge from the stock market education space, which is hyper competitive, let's apply it to local businesses. And just straight out of the gate, we were just crushing it, it was so early days with SEO, I felt a little bit like a magician, someone would come to me with $1. And I magically turned it into 10 for them. And that was the heyday and happy days of SEO. And I stayed in that business for about 10 years, and then found out like very heavily working in the operations. Then I found out we were pregnant. And I didn't want to be the dad who was always too busy just working incredibly long hours in the business. And I hired a CEO she came in over a period of about sort of six to 12 months we systemized that business. Finally got me out of the operations. She ran it for three years. And then I started up some of the side businesses that initially with the side hustles System Hub and Systemology. And then about a year ago, actually, I had no intentions of selling Melbourne SEO. But Melissa, the CEO, because it worked out to be quite a good cash cow for me, she was running it, I checked with her about once a quarter as the owner, I'd get a profit distribution. And I thought, well, I'm just going to sit on this business, you know, until the industry completely changes or, or something happens. So she went over to the states for some family reasons. When she came back, she resigned, she's from the US, she's based here in Australia. But she said, Look, I've got to move back to the US. And then that's when I said, Well, I'm so focused on this System Hub and Systemology stuff that, let's go ahead and sell with digital agency, because that'll be perfect testament for starting a business building it up, systemising it having a CEO run it, and then sell it. And then I've gone full in on System Hub and Systemology in I mean, the I asked the, the person who purchased the business afterwards why they purchased it. So there are two main reasons, one financial performance and two the systems they said, you'd manage to run it without you for three years that they knew the business now wasn't dependent on me. And that was, that's kind of like, I don't know if that's the short version or the long version. But that's, that's how we got to where we are today.
Joe Troyer 6:33
Now, that's great. And I think that I mean, so many agency owners can only imagine right, working once a quarter checking in with a team once a quarter.
So let's fast forward a little bit and tell us Dave about what the heck System Hub have Systemology is?
Dave Jenyns 8:38
Yep, so System Hub is a came first. And it was the side business. And we built this software to solve our own problem. And it's a place to store a business's systems, processes. checklists, kind of like you know how a lot of people when they create systems and processes in their agency, they might store it in a dropbox folder, or they scattered over lots of computers, or they put it in Google Drive, and some of them are in Google Docs. And it's just one big mess. And, and there's a lot of limitations with it. So we built a platform that was purpose designed for housing systems and processes in one location with strong permissions and purpose built so it's simple for everybody to use. And we ran that SAAS for a good couple of years as that side project before I started to look at, well, what's the difference between those businesses that make systems work and those that just subscribe to a new shiny tool and then do nothing with it. And as I dug in, I realized, most business owners, they don't really care what the software is, it's not that they just want the result of a systemized business. They could be using, you know, a4 Bits of paper, with systems scribbled on them shoved into a shoe box. If it worked. They'd be happy with that, that the way people get stuck is, yes, I'm sold on systems and processes. But where do I get started? And how do I do it? And like a lot of business owners that have been around the traps for a while they've read the books, they read the E Myth and Traction and Scaling up. And a lot of these books, they, they, they talk about systems and processes, but they don't really tell you how to do it. And that's where Systemology was born. And I thought, well, let's create the system for systemising a business. And it's it's a seven step framework, which it's platform agnostic. I mean, you don't it's not built around System Hub, but it is more a framework of how do you identify the minimum viable systems? How do you break a lot of the myths, that's the other thing I used to have myths as a digital agency owner, where I used to think, ah, I'm the only one who could build the systems or even if I built the systems, my team wouldn't follow them anyway. And I'm in a digital agency, and things change so quickly, what's the point of writing a system because they're going to get out of date, and all of this baggage in my head as to why I couldn't systemize my business, and that was a big part of systemology, as well, is to try and break those misconceptions.
Joe Troyer 11:20
I love those misconceptions, man. I'm so glad that you brought that up, because I can just hear people listening right in the audience, like, oh, but I can't do that. That's not me. It won't work in my situation. And I used to always tell people that they're not special. And it was just like, that's not really quite right. But one of my coaches, Alex Charfen, has the same four he says you're not a frickin unicorn. Right. And, and I think it's just much better. I love it. But I'm glad that you brought that up.
Dave Jenyns 11:47
No, I think one thing I find as well with a lot of business owners a great book with reading is one called Rocket Fuel by Gino Wickman. When he talks about the relationship between he calls them, visionaries and integrators, Michael Gerber, you know, the original godfather of business systems, he used to call them and still does, and leader and manager. But but it's this whole idea that you've got the big picture thinker. And then you've got the detailed operations person. And what happens is oftentimes the founder of the agency is a big picture thinker. They're very creative. They think, because I'm not a systems person, I can't run a system centered business. But the founders mind and the visionaries mind is wired differently from the way that an operations manager looks at things detail orientated, focused on managing the team, they go all the way through to completion. That's your operations person. And if you recruit correctly, you find people who resonate with systems, and A players actually love the idea of great systems and processes. So it's, it's kind of, yeah, people just jump to the conclusion that Oh, yes, this won't work for me. And oftentimes, it's because they've approached it the wrong way, the first time, and then they just give up.
Joe Troyer 13:09
Oh, man, I completely agree. I love it. systems and processes a big key for me. And I'd love to, I think spend the next section of time breaking down if it makes sense, the seven steps talk about the framework a little bit. And I'd like to contextually where possible, Dave really relate to the Melbourne SEO business if we can, because so many of our followers are marketers and agency owners and SEO agencies, I think it would give really, really good takeaway some perspective as well.
Dave Jenyns 13:40
Perfect. Well, the seven steps and one of them. I mean, you don't need to get the book or do anything, I can just tell you exactly what the exercise is now, and someone listening to this can do it. So the first step and an answer the most common question I get, which is, where do I get started? Because there's potentially hundreds and hundreds of systems that you could create, but what are the ones that really move the needle? So I've got an exercise that helps you identify, it's the 80/20, you figure out what's the 20% of the systems that deliver 80% of the result. And it's called the critical client flow, someone can get an a4 sheet of paper. And in the top left hand corner, you start off and you say, who is the dream client, like who is that perfect client that you would love to work with? It's a pleasure to work with that pays your advertised prices that buys more things off you that refers their friends and family that that's your dream client. Underneath that you write what is the central or the core product or service that you would sell them first if they were getting to know you. So if you were just getting started in an engagement, and what would be the first product you could sell them that would give them a chance to get to know you and would be a great gateway to the the rest of your product line. So for example, digital agency for us, our, our dream client in this example was a franchise or someone who had franchises underneath them. And we there's a few reasons we picked that it It happened to relate to also the other businesses that I own. So it fed together, but you get clear on what that is, then the core product, even though we're a digital agency selling a range of different services, we were doing everything from SEO to AdWords to some content. But the core one that I started off with was a website build, we called the authority websites that we would build for clients. And the reason I did that is because it's a clear defined deliverable, we would work on it for a set period, it would give us a chance to get to know the client, if they liked us, and we like them, then then after that, it's very easy to then introduce to the other products and services. And then we move into the critical client flow itself. It's just a linear journey that you mapped down on the page from top to bottom, starting with grabbing the person's attention all the way through to delivery and getting them to come back. So you start off and you go, right how, how am I grabbing the attention of this target audience? And it might be, you know, referrals, maybe you're doing your own digital marketing, you're doing some social media, some SEO, maybe you're doing some speaking podcasts, whatever, you list that across the top of the page, then you go next step down. The next step down is inquiry, how do you handle incoming inquiry, whether that's through a phone and email, a webform submission, then you move down the page? And what is the first step in this process for digital agency, it might be some form of qualification. So maybe you have a series of questions they answer or a quiz or something to figure out if they're a good fit, then we move down the page. After that we're kind of we're in the sales process here. Now, then, once they're qualified, maybe hop on zoom, and you have a sales call with them, that would be the next box down, and then you jump down to the next one. And then you might once you've had the sales meeting via zoom, you might issue a proposal, then after the proposal, what happens after that, well, then you might have some sort of follow up sequence, if they don't purchase straightaway, then underneath that, they, you might need to take some money, they might pay 50%, upfront or 50%, on completion, or like both or all upfront, whatever you figure out what your money piece looks like, then underneath that, and then you might have some sort of onboarding. So you fill out, you know, the client makes a purchase, you want them to fill out a questionnaire, you set the expectations, you tell them what to expect, then after that, then there's the core delivery, that's usually one of the most complex, but in the critical client flow, it's just about keeping it very simple all on one page, that would just be the delivery. And, and then the step underneath, that would be some sort of handover, and what happens towards the end of the completion of the project, and lastly, you know, as part of that handover, getting them to come back, buy something else, or refer someone. So if you start off by mapping that out that the critical client flow, if you can make that part of the business happen, and not be dependent on any team member, you've created a scalable money machine. Yeah, particularly that, you know, it doesn't work without the business owner so that that first piece is a great way to focus, because there's tons of things you could systemize you could systemize How do I hire staff? How do I onboard staff? How do I do my finances? How do I do my management? How do I do any number of things, there's lots of areas to systemize. But just focusing on the critical client flow first, is how you make money. And if you can make a scalable way of making money, you're on the right track. So that's, that's step one. And I won't go through all of the steps in that type of detail. But is that kind of clear for you, Joe?
Joe Troyer 18:59
Yeah, that was that was really clear. That was great. Thank you. Yeah, the critical client flow. I've never thought about it. But yeah, the that initial, how do you get the customer? And how do you qualify? How do you deliver as simplified as possible? one sheet, I like that very, very good. I find way too often, people deep dive way too fast right, and they go into the microscopic view, and they're never able to provide that top level understanding and view of what's happening. So I love that. And that obviously makes it a whole lot easier to accomplish as well.
Dave Jenyns 19:33
Yeah, if I mean, if someone wants to like, you can just do it on an a4 sheet of paper. I also have the template that looks like that. It's very simple. That's just the template of the critical client flow. You can get that over systemology.com/resources. It's just a free little, download the PDF, and then you move into the next stages that follow. So the first stage addresses the myth that you're going to need hundreds of systems. The next stage which is assign, and addresses the myth myth that the business owner needs to create the systems. The truth is the business owner is typically the worst person to be creating the systems. And so assign is about taking the critical client flow, having a look at your existing team, determining who can do it best, like each one of those steps best, where possible, avoiding the business owner, because the a lot of things that people do when they try and systemize is make things just perfect. But if you can figure out who's doing it best, and then get capture that, and then get everybody up to that standard, and do it consistent. Now, that's a huge win, as opposed to trying to engineer something exactly right and perfect straight out of the gate. And so it's that second stage is called the assigned stage. And it's about figuring out with the knowledge resides. And the next step is the extract phase. And this speaks to the idea that, and systems, it's time consuming, to create systems and people don't enjoy creating systems. The secret for this one, there's two main secrets, the one secret is, and you need a system for creating systems. So you need a way for creating the systems that everybody can follow. And then the second secret is that it's a two person job. So you have the person who has the knowledge, and then you have a separate person who does the documentation. So the knowledgeable worker gets recorded doing it, whether it's on zoom or loom, or, you know, if it's meeting with a client, do it recorded on your iPhone or whatever, just record it getting done. And then give it to a knowledgeable work, or sorry, a, we call them systems champion, who then documents what the knowledgeable worker has done this
Joe Troyer 21:52
Is the goal with a system champion to be able to get the same outcome, obviously, right? Or where do you separate? Who does what
Dave Jenyns 22:03
the business owner is very busy, nine times out of 10, your best team members are very, very busy. So and oftentimes not everybody enjoys writing systems. In fact, most people don't enjoy the process. They see it as a important but not urgent, so they never get to it. So anything we can do to reduce and remove the friction for that those knowledgeable workers is a win. So the purpose of the knowledgeable worker is literally just to record them doing it in the moment, and the systems champion. And depending on what the task is, might sit with them as they're doing it and ask questions, if they're not clear. Or if it's if that's not possible, they'll just get the recording, they watched the video, they pull out the key steps in this, you know, try and add some sub bullets and things like that. And then they send it back to the knowledgeable worker, because everybody loves to edit, nobody likes to write from a blank page. So if you send them, you know, a document, that's three quarters of the way there that knowledgeable worker will will find time to do it. Whereas if you told them to document their systems and processes, they're not going to do it. So it's a nice little hack. Does that kind ofhelp to answer that?
Joe Troyer 23:15
No, that makes perfect sense. Thank you.
And then after you extract so if you think about it, we've defined the critical client flow, we've assigned where the knowledge is, we've started through the extraction process, that step number four is organize. This is then about where does the knowledge seat? And also how do you integrate it with your project management platform. So the it's about the software stack, the magic, particularly for a digital agency happens when you're running out of project management software, like Asana or podio, Basecamp, teamwork, PM, whatever the platform is, but you've got a, a way to assign who does what by when. And when you assign a task, the actual magic happens when the task that you assign also in the description has a link to the system that explains how that task is done. When you get those two together, then you create a level of accountability because when someone's checking it off is done. They saying I've done it to the standard outlined in the system. And if they don't, then it's the job of the manager to go well, you need to be retrained or you've got to follow the process. So that that step number four is all about the organized. Now. Step number five is what we call the integrate stage. This is about getting your team then to follow the process because it's one thing to have it documented. It's another thing to have the tools but then it's yet another thing to actually get buy in and get them to follow the process. So the fortunate thing is the person is listening to this right now. Is it there is never been an easier time in the history of mankind, to introduce systems and processes to a team because there's so much change that's going on in the world with the pandemic and everything, everybody's working virtually. And under different circumstances, there are changes going on in their community and in their lives. So they're accepting of change. So if you as the business owner, and your, your manager introduced this, it's much easier to get buying in, because you just go, the world is changing, we have to change. This is the new way we're doing things. And but you do you need to think about it in terms of the benefits to the team member, not the business. So why would a team member want to systemize their role? Well, they would want to systemize a role because it makes their job easier. They might want to systemize, you know, you know what it's like you go away on holidays, and you come back to an inbox and it's got 1000 emails, and nothing's move forward, and you spend the next three months trying to catch up for the one week that you took off. And so if, if you can let the team member know, by systemising, we can delegate some of your tasks. And then other team members can move things forward, you can have a nice restful break. And when you come back, you just pick up where you left off other team members, it might be, hey, do you want to move up the ranks in the organization, or to do that we need you to document what you're doing delegate to lower cost team members, then I can give you higher value work, and then you become more valuable to the business. So it's everybody's different. So you have to think about what the benefits are to the individual. And then also understand that the resistance to change typically only happens right at the start with your existing team members. For once you get over the hump, the hardest bit is the first 369 months, if you need it, it's like pushing a rock up a hill, then you get through the other side. And this is when the team says this is how we do things here. That's when you know, you've you've broken through to the next level. And you've built a sales, sorry, a systems culture. So that's that integrate phase. And we're into the final couple of two stages. The second last stage is the scale stage. And that's this sixth, scale is about now that you've captured the systems around the critical client flow, you figured out you know, your software stack, you know, extracted those systems, you started to get buy in from the team, then you need to identify what systems do you need to scale. And this is where you think about the systems like you know, your finance systems, your HR systems to grow and manage your team, some of your management systems, you bring it out of that stage a little bit later. And then finally, the last one is the optimized stage. And this is
Dave Jenyns 28:10
this stage breaks the myth that you have to systemize like McDonald's there's there's a misconception that you need to everybody thinks of McDonald's as the poster child for business systems. But McDonald's has been doing it for 60 years. And here you are just getting started. It's like you competing in the Olympics against you know, if you compare yourself to McDonald's, there are lean mean systemized machine who've trained their entire life. And they are just, you know, they've won all the gold medals for business systemization. And then here you are coming in and you're trying to compete at the Olympic level. But you're, you know, you haven't been training you haven't been eating right, you've been, you know, a flabby couch potato, and then you're trying to compete at that level. So, you think, how did McDonald's systemize 60 years ago? Not how are they systemized today? So get yourself a copy of the movie, the founder, and watch the early days of McDonald's? And have they just were figuring stuff out? Oh, do we put the shake machine next to where you flip the hamburgers? Or do we put that over near the window where the drive thru is like that. That's part of the early days figuring out where things went. And that says that optimization happens last, just for now. If you can get everybody to deliver to a consistent standard, that is the best of the how the best team member in your organization is doing it. That's a win. You don't have to make it the very best in the world. And that's kind of the other seven stages. It's define a sign, extract, organize, integrate, scale and then operate demise. But that's what system ology is about. And that's what the book talks about. It talks you through those seven stages. I love that.
Joe Troyer 30:06
That's great, man. Thanks for breaking that down. I think that gives everybody a nice concrete system to use. So they walk away from the podcast with with a system, right. And I'm sure most of them will be encouraged to go grab your book as well. So that's great. So how do you go from there? Right? If that's the seven step process, to checking in with your team member, your manager in your Melbourne SEO business once a quarter, right? What are the steps once you go through those seven to start to pull away without your team feeling like man, Dave is gone? And I'm doing this all by myself? Right? Yeah. How do you do that terms of a leadership role in the right way? In your opinion?
Dave Jenyns 30:49
Yep. So definitely finding the Yin to your Yang is important. So finding the operations person who steps in who you feel confident about, I like, for me, that person, ideally, has run a business before, but may have gotten burnt in the past with running a business. So burnt out, and now they're looking for something different. Because if they have an appreciation and an understanding of being a business owner, you're infinitely further along. Because it's, I mean, it's challenging work being a business owner, and there's lots of things to do. So finding that person is a key pivotal part. Another one, I mean, we use quite a bit of the framework from Traction, which is a book by Gino Wickman. And it talks about his EOS system entrepreneurial operating system. And that has to do with the
it's not as important for me to follow his exact method for when the meetings run. But you need to find your meeting rhythm that works. So the group team gets together, you know, on a team call X number of times, you're you've got a finance meeting that happens with the CEO and the head of the finance department once a month, you you know, Melissa, and I have our quarterly meeting and what are we covering in that? So it's, it's finding the, when does the sales meeting happen? It's finding the the rhythm and the cadence for those meetings, and then making sure that you've got an agenda, and so that it's very clear on what you're covering? And okay, well, you know, when I chat with Melissa, we've got a spreadsheet that we use, and it pulls out the key metrics. And a big part of the first part of that session we have together is reviewing the metrics. And we also have, in part of that meeting, basically quarterly rocks, we have these big things that we're working on every three months, there might be a project that I'll leave Melissa with. And then when we catch up, we're reporting back on that. So that's definitely part of it. We've always been virtual. So and it's you know, we use slack for our, you know, intercommunication. Throughout the day, we use Asana, for the management of projects, it's checking in with the team members to make sure that everybody's feeling connected. I did kind of step out there a few times, like, I remember, Melissa, I had a habit as the business owner, feeling like anything that I was working on was most important. So if I had a presentation next week, I'd say I got to get this slide deck done. And I'd give it to the graphics person, I'd say jump it to the top of the queue. And I did that two or three times to the point where Melissa pulled me aside and said, Look, you know, every time that you do that, you're kind of throwing out the work shedule. And we've got client works, and when we're delivering on things. And then the designer says, Oh, I missed it, because I was working with Dave on this project. And I did it once or twice. And then it got to the point where Melissa, I'd built up such a great relationship with her that she felt comfortable to do this, she went into Asana, she wrote a big message importan,t tagged the entire team in it, and said next time, Dave comes to you with an urgent task, and doesn't follow the appropriate channels for getting it assigned. I want you to ignore his message. And, and it was pretty gutsy for her as a manager to say that to the business owner, and that I wasn't going things about the right way. Because what I was doing, I was undermining she developed a system and a way of doing things. And we agreed that when I it's like when I come into the house, I need to take my shoes off and I need to be respectful on the rules of the house. When I'm outside of the house. I can be as you know, working whatever way that I want. So I have a an executive assistant and we work in a bit of a different way because I'm a founder, I'm a visionary. I'm a little bit million ideas left, right and center and I want to hand ball it. to someone and have her catch it and organize it. And we work that way outside of the team. But when we were in the, you know, the bounds of Asana, and I'm working with the rest of the team, I had a way of approaching things. So having some rules, having some person stepping there. And then we also started to gradually move me out from pieces, I stopped doing the sales, Melissa started handling some of the high level sales stuff, and we had another sales assistant who was helping her as well. And then that reduced the dependency of the, the, the client feeling like all they wanted to chat with me, because they chatted with someone else first I used to think are because I mean, all of the videos on the website, they're going to want to talk to me. But when we inserted someone in there, they were okay with that. And then Melissa got it, where she would set the expectation once it went from salesperson through the operations team, she would then connect them with who their account manager was, and then they would take over that. So it's it's Yeah, thinking, moving away from creating everything bespoke as well, the way that we created the products was
why, while there was some customization there, there's still a set formula, and we moved away from strategies that would change or not strategies, tactics that would get out of date very quickly. And we move to things that were more stable. So content marketing, and you know, traditional, just good, solid SEO, and, you know, managing of AdWords accounts, where it was a little bit more stable. So that that was some of the other changes. There's a lot to it. And it's probably hard to distill it down into one or two things. But if I had to, it's finding the right Yin to your Yang that manages a big one.
Joe Troyer 36:50
Yeah, definitely couldn't agree more. Dude, this has been awesome. Thank you so much, Dave. I've really enjoyed this podcast episode, and I want to be respectful of your audience's time. definitely suggest everybody go grab the book, and then wrapping this up. Speaking of books on I'm a voracious reader, David, but I have a, I'm okay, now, with picking up a book reading the first chapter and going okay. Yeah, and tossing it. Um, and so I either pick it up, and I can't put it down. Or I pick it up, I read the first chapter. And I'm like, yeah, no thanks. So when I have a chance to, to interview somebody on the podcast, obviously, I admire them. I like what they're up to. That's why we have him on the show. So I always like to ask guests, instead of asking you to recommend three books, which is I feel like is like what everybody does on a podcast, we like to do something a little bit different. And I like to, like looking at your business and your life. Now. What do you think has made the biggest impact? What book do you think has made the biggest impact on the way that you do business or the way that your your business is resembled and what it looks like today, and why?
Dave Jenyns 38:01
The one I'm going to recommend is the E myth. And that's probably just because it's you know, so central to systems, it's just understanding and getting to the point as a business owner, everybody realized, just because you can do the thing, because you can run the AdWords account and you do it really, really well doesn't necessarily mean that you can run an AdWords agency. And you've got, there's a range of other skills that you need to master. And the more I've done this, the more that I've realized, it's actually, oftentimes what holds you back is being able to do the thing. So I almost earn the the business owner to set up a product line in their agency for something that they don't know how to do, and purposefully not learn how to do it. So if I asked in the digital agency, a big breakthrough was we started selling video services under a sub brand Melbourne video production, I don't know how to turn on, I probably know how to turn on the camera, but I don't know how to edit in Premiere and do all that sort of thing. So that meant I had to build that part of the business. Without me doing the thing. That's, that's the biggest one. And the e-myth is really great at helping you to understand why the systems are so important.
Joe Troyer 39:27
I love that because you never end up with the monkey on your back then, right? You never end up being the one I'll just jump in, I'll just fix it because it'll be faster. You never end up in that situation because you don't know how to do it. So it's, it's a little controversial. I would imagine that some people to say that, um, but I completely get your viewpoint. And it definitely makes sense, especially from the systematizing type of roles and what we talked about and getting other people to buy in and to figure it out. To get them to help build out the systems and processes and get them to really help build the outcomes in that context, man that makes it makes total sense.
Dave Jenyns 40:09
And the other thing to think about is, and this is, if it's not your first rodeo, like, if this is your first business, and you're getting it off the ground, oftentimes, yeah, you will know how to do the thing. But if you've been in business for a while, if you found yourself in, you know, a few team members around you, you're stuck in operations, you can't seem to grow. And you've got some runs on the board and the clients like what you're doing, that's the right time to think about systemising and doing exactly what we talked about. But if you're just getting started, then, you know, sometimes you kind of, you have to get on it, because that's how you get the thing off the ground. But, but you get stuck there, that's where most people have the issues. They they start it and then they never stop it. And then I mean, I was guilty of that I've got Stuck in my agency for 10 years, I think I probably was in the agency, maybe seven years too long in the actual operations, I think that's a good benchmark, it's okay maybe to get your business up and running and off the ground. And over the course of three years, but if you're still in the business, in the day to day operations, doing the thing, and central to the delivery, and it's been three years, you have to start to think about changing what you're doing.
Joe Troyer 41:25
I love it. I feel like I tell my students that all the time. So I really appreciate it coming from you, you echoing that statement. And Dave has been awesome. Thank you so much for for coming on the show. I know that people are absolutely gonna love this episode. One of the biggest things, we talked about the systems and processes and delegating and moving up and out of the business and looking over top. And really getting away from being the technician, you got to get there. You got to start there to some degree, you got to learn the ropes. But yeah, after three years, if you're looking at your business, and you're still running the day to day and everything's relying on you, obviously, you know, you got a ways to go. So I just want to thank you, man, this has been fantastic. We'll definitely link up to the book in the show notes. We'll make sure that we link up to that resources page as well and briefly mentioned, I definitely will be listening to the podcast myself will make that happen as well as systemology and systems hub. If somebody wants to connect with you, though, personally, it seems like maybe Twitter or Facebook might be the best place. What would that be?
Dave Jenyns 42:27
Yeah, I think I, either of those channels, if they go to Systemology.com. And then down in the footer, it just links to whatever your preferred method is, if you want to watch YouTube videos, if you want to subscribe to the podcast, business processes simplified or asked me a question on Twitter, Twitter, whatever, whatever works for you. We're pretty active on all of them.
Joe Troyer 42:49
All right, awesome, man. Thank you so much. This has been great, and everybody's gonna love it. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. We'll see you on the next one. Joe Troyer.