Joe Troyer 0:44
Hey, everybody it's Joe Troyer, and welcome to another episode of show me the nuggets today. I have somebody joining us that's quite literally like just down the street, what's up with all the Ohio guests lately, but it's my cousin actually, Madeline Weisburn and I'm super excited to have her on the call. She's a marketing student at Walsh University. And we're gonna be talking about how marketing agencies can create a flourishing internship program. And I had her on having her on with us, because Madeline's actually taking part in a couple of different internship programs, and I really wanted to be able to pick her brain and obviously want to be able to share each and every one of you guys, how you guys can do the same. So without further ado, Madeline, welcome to the podcast.
Madeline 1:34
Hi, thanks for having me, I'm super excited
Joe Troyer 1:37
Yeah, glad to have you. So, tell us a little bit about yourself. You're obviously a marketing student at Walsh.
Madeline 1:44
Yeah, I'm a junior honors marketing student, I have minors in corporate communications and history. I'm super involved on campus. I am the director of community engagement for our innovation center called the Garage. I'm president of American Marketing Association, members in countless other clubs. I work as a tour guide on campus. And then I'm also a marketing intern for the career center. And I've done some past internships as well that contribute to that, but yeah,
Joe Troyer 2:13
cool. So um, tell us a little bit about why you chose marketing as your field.
Madeline 2:18
Yeah. So I was in a really unique position in high school, I took a career and college readiness course, my senior year. And basically, the course was I went to class on Mondays. And then Tuesday through Friday, I was released from school early, and I could go out and job shadow anybody I wanted in any industry. And so you got your credits by going out and experiencing and job shadowing, and I did everything you could possibly think of like I went from teaching to, you know, more business stuff like consulting, and HR, and then I jumped into marketing job shadowing experience at a local hospital. And in that role, I was just kind of like, okay, this is home, this is like what I want to do I want to be around people, I want to help communicate content in a really relevant and interesting way for people.
Joe Troyer 3:14
What are your what are some of your favorite parts in marketing? Obviously, there's a lot of different types of marketing. There's everything from copywriting and design, and then all the mediums and everything in between. What, what are you really attached to or drawn to in marketing?
Madeline 3:29
Yeah, I like I like market research, and sort of the back end stuff. And I also like a lot of strategy stuff. So the beforehand creating your marketing plan, that kind of thing.
Joe Troyer 3:40
Gotcha. Cool. That's awesome. So you talked about some organizations that you're involved in? Obviously, you listed off quite a few. Can you talk about some of your key responsibilities in those?
Madeline 3:51
Yeah, so the garage is probably my biggest responsibility. I'm the director of community engagement for them. And the idea behind the garage is that a lot of big businesses got their start in a garage. And so we help connect student entrepreneurs with resources in the community to get their ideas up off the ground and running. And so my role kind of looks like running the website, creating site visits for students to get off campus and go see what is happening in the community. I run a book club, you know, just engaging with students in every way possible, and then using my connections and my network to create a network for them.
Joe Troyer 4:32
Awesome. Cool. So, um, how many internships have you been a part of so far?
Madeline 4:37
I've done two. So my first one was at led transportation. I was just a general intern for them. And I was hired on they had a couple projects they had in mind and then they sort of had me do a survey at their social media. What they could possibly do in the future is kind of a project based internship. So once I completed all the projects they had I was done working for them. And then I am currently a marketing intern for the career center on campus. So they hired me and they're like, every other office on campus has social media, and we don't, we don't know what to do. And I was like, oh, okay, so I kind of run their social media as I create flyers, I help connect students with information.
Joe Troyer 5:19
Awesome. So if you guys can't tell Madeline is super switched on. She's somebody that when I think about you, I think about man, like, I would love to draw talent like you into one of my organizations, because I know that you would fuel growth to a whole nother level. And so when I was thinking about running this podcast, I'm like, Man, I know, the audience would love to find talent, like MADELINE That is overachieving doing really well in in class, but also in all these other organizations and in these internships, and so I'm super excited to hear from your point of view, what are the things that would make you interested in working inside of a specific marketing company's Internship Program?
Madeline 6:07
Yeah, I was just having this conversation with my dad, because I'm applying to internships for the summer at the moment, and my dad has a sentiment that I have sort of latched on to, especially now. And it's that internships are about, you know, investing in students. So if a business is truly investing in me, they are creating opportunities for me to grow and to learn, and it's an experiential learning process. You know, we talked about how there's all kinds of learners in the, in the world, you know, the audio learners visual learners, when it really boils down to is that everybody's an experiential learner. And when I walk into an internship, you know, I want as many opportunities as possible to be as hands on as possible. So, you know, I don't want you just telling me about the projects you do, I want you to actually have me working on them, and then give me constructive criticism on how I can grow my work and what what I'm doing and how it provides value, or if it provides value kind of thing. So you know, when we look at marketing agencies and what they can do for their interns, you know, the hands on elements really critical how you grow your customer base, that kind of thing experience?
Joe Troyer 7:29
Yeah, so I think, you know, at the end of the day, I think probably most marketing agencies would be really excited about working with interns, because it's free labor, right? But you got to know as well, that it's an exchange, right? It's that there's a reason that you would be willing to do that, right. And it's because you're going to get the learning experience. So obviously, you know, like you said, you got to be hands on, you got to give them a good experience. You got to make sure that it's something that I would, I would have the goal that Madeline, it would be something that you'd be excited about, and be so thankful for the opportunity that you're going to go back and tell everybody else that walls, so that okay, next next semester, I get a whole slew of, you know, interns wanting to come and apply.
Madeline 8:12
Yeah, yeah. And I'm always, I'm always really hesitant about, like, employers who see me as free labor or like cheap labor, right? Because like, I, I know my value to an extent, right, like, I may not have the same level of experience as everybody else on the team, but I'm providing a really useful perspective on your marketing and what you bring to the table. So that's, that's still value. And, you know, obviously, you're not going to pay me the same as anybody else. But I still hope you heed what I bring to the table.
Joe Troyer 8:48
Sure. Yeah. There's got to be value there, obviously. So I'm curious that let's let's dive in a little deeper there, of the internships that you've done so far, have they been? Have they been paid and non paid
Madeline 8:59
paid, all of them
Joe Troyer 9:02
Is that normal tell us more about that. It really
Madeline 9:04
It depends. I will be honest, you know, I'm a broke college student. So I'm not gonna like go seek out internships that aren't paid. I can't afford that. So like, I think that's something most students look for is that your internships at least paid. And you know, it depends on what kind of internship you're looking for. If it's a nonprofit, it's likely that it's not paid or it's paid minimum wage kind of thing. And you know, honestly, like my work at the University, I'm not, I'm not paid a lot for it, because it's a university job. So I have to find other ways to get value from it. But the money piece is important. And I would say, I don't know it's real hit or miss. If it's a remote internship, a lot of times they won't pay for it. Sometimes they offer like some sort of scholarship deal with it. It just depends.
Joe Troyer 9:56
So what's a what's a if somebody decided that they did want to pay what's a good pay rate? Like, What's the going rate? Or what would you be happy with or help us understand, like, what your perception of that.
Madeline 10:09
Man that's difficult. Um, I personally don't look at anything that's below like 12 or $13 an hour. Um, and this is really dependent, like all my internships have been remote. So I've been willing to take a little bit less money because I'm working from home, and I'm not having to travel. And I'm not having to pay for housing. So like, you know, if you're, if you're having to do that, then you know, you're up and you're looking between the 15 $20 range for that.
Joe Troyer 10:40
Yep. Okay. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So it seems like with most internships, that they're classified into kind of two different types of relationships, it seems like either kind of longer and kind of in going ongoing, almost indefinite until you're like I'm done. And then other ones seem like they're much more organized. And they're more like, you know, they're there for a semester, let's say, and they kind of have a column for the semester, it's a little more organized. And then like, you're done, and you move on. Is that right? Is that normal?
Madeline 11:11
Yeah, no, there, I think there's almost three kinds of internships. So there's the project based ones, which was like what I did at the transportation company where they have like, a really specific thing that they're hiring you for. And that case, they were hiring me to work on their veterans certification. And once I helped them get their veteran certification and sort of market it, I was done working for them. So there's that kind of internship, then there's the one where it's like time bound, like you're saying, it's, you know, for the summer, semester, whatever the deal is, and then there's the ongoing ones where, you know, sometimes the time bound ones can turn into ongoing ones, where they'll hire you for the summer. And then they'll be like, actually, would you like to stay on remote for whatever, and then they'll end up hiring you afterwards as an actual employee. So it just depends on what you're looking for from it, you know, the time bound ones often lead to jobs afterwards. So those are really good options, especially if you're like a junior senior, cuz you are looking for a job.
But you know, the project based ones are really great for experience, especially if you don't know what you want to do. So it's like, you going to an agency, and you're like, and you're looking at a bunch of different agencies, like one that specializes in SEO, and you go in, and you work on a specific SEO project for them. And you sort of see that thing. And then you go in, and you help work on a marketing plan for another company, it helps you see a bunch of different projects. So that's kind of a cool thing about those internships,
Joe Troyer 12:48
no, 100%, I think, I think If structured correctly, I think those time bound ones can be really interesting, because, like you said, they allow you to see a specific aspect of the company kind of from start to finish. And it's, it would be really hands on. So when I was thinking about internship and how to create one, I was thinking more along those lines, like almost, you come into a division, you work the division for a semester, and then you move to a different division so that you can really give the intern that learning and hands on experience. Otherwise, it's like, come in, yeah, work on this little thing. And then hopefully next week, we'll find some work for you. And then the next week, we'll decide like, I would want to make sure that the intern really gets a lot of value out of the program. Otherwise, yeah, kind of what's the point?
Madeline 13:34
Right? I mean, the best internships are the most intentional ones, both for the employer and for the student. That's learning from them.
Joe Troyer 13:43
I heard some horror stories, I was watching ,looking up some YouTube videos of internships. And it seems like one of the one of the biggest issues is that there's no like central point of contact for the intern. And it's like, hey, just, you know, come to this department for the day. And then the next day, oh, are you available come to this department? I'm like, oh, man, like they don't know who they're reporting to. It's just kind of, you're just on call for whatever anybody wants. Have you been in any any of those situations?
Madeline 14:12
I yeah, I have actually. And it's more apparent in like really small businesses where there's like very few employees, you don't really know who your like, boss is kind of thing. So that's, that's weird. And then like, I'd say another like horror story moment is like remote internships are sort of hard to track work. And like when you should be working and how much you should be working. So it's really, it's really important, especially if you have remote interns to set expectations about like, you're going to be on at this time or for this many hours a day. And like actually track it like, you know, I could see on all of your like Google stuff and whatever you're using, you know, when you were on And when you last edited and that kind of thing. So, you know, just being really aware of your usage and that kind of thing. It's, I don't know, it's all over the place
Joe Troyer 15:11
I can see that 100% Um, let's talk about time a little more. What's what's a realistic time commitment for a marketing agency to ask for from a marketing intern?
Madeline 15:23
Over the summer full time. Um, I honestly, and this is just like, so I don't have to have five jobs over the summer. I look for full time positions over the summer, you know, and you could realistically do like two part time things and then have them add up to be a full time position kind of thing. But it's easier to just have one. During the school year, I would say like 20 hours a week is probably maximum that I'd be willing to work as an intern just because you know, class and whatever.
Joe Troyer 15:56
You think that that's normal, or do you think you're overachieving? A little bit?
Madeline 16:00
I'm probably overachieving? Probably like 10 to 20 hours is realistic
Joe Troyer 16:07
Yeah, I was thinking, yeah, under 15 hours, but I think 20 could be pushing it. But it depends on your course load, obviously, as well, and lots of other things.
Madeline 16:16
Yeah, Walsh is in sort of a unique position, we're on eight week terms instead of 16 week semesters. So it sort of makes your schedule kind of wonky. Like last eight weeks, I didn't have class on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I had class all day on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I had class from eight to five. But then Monday, Wednesday, Friday was just like free work days. So that meant, you know, you can do internships for longer periods of time and that kind of thing. So it looks different for me to just because of the unique setting my universities,
Joe Troyer 16:49
Yeah, so what I just took away is like, really, you should be tailoring your time commitments to the intern, right? I mean, if you got that program, and you have all that off time, but it's very specific, you know, if they can cater to your schedule, obviously, you could give them a lot more than if they couldn't, you know, it was a really rigid program.
Madeline 17:09
Yeah. And some of the best things, you know, that I've experienced, like, when I was job shadowing in high school, I, that VP of community engagement, that one hospital, she would schedule meetings, during the hours that I was there, because she knew I could come and sit in on those meetings and hear what they had to say. And that was good, because she was like scheduling the time that I could be there. And not just like filling me in in the afterwards. So that was neat.
Joe Troyer 17:40
How often, in your different internship programs, do you feel like you've gotten like really good hands on feedback from your coordinator? The person that's, you know, in charge?
Madeline 17:55
I think it should probably happen more often than it does. And I'm a pretty proactive person. So like, if I'm seeking feedback, I'm going to ask for it in, in my experience, it's been, you know, just like whenever I ask, which is pretty often, it's probably like, once a month, I would say, quarterly is probably expected. If it's like a full, like, if you're just like doing it all year round kind of thing over the summer, you know, this might just be like a weekly 10 minute check in like, Hey, how are you doing kind of thing
Joe Troyer 18:26
of the different internship programs that you've been in the two different ones? How many other interns were around?
Madeline 18:32
None. I'm the only intern and I was the only intern at both those positions. That's
Joe Troyer 18:36
interesting to do if that's normal, or abnormal? Or it really just depends?
Madeline 18:41
I don't know, it depends on I think it depends a lot on how big your business is, the transportation company is pretty small. They only had like six people on their admin team, like they had other employees, but they were actually actually drivers. So I'd say that's probably typical. It just depends on the size of your office,
Joe Troyer 19:01
how'd you find those two internship programs?
Madeline 19:04
I do a lot of digging. So the transportation one, I was looking for internships last year, and somebody from the Career Center reached out to me and she was like, Hey, I heard you were looking. Here's a project based one that just kind of came up on my radar, you should check this out. And that was because I was connected to my career center at school. So definitely do that if you're student listening to this. And then the second thing, the second internship, I actually had somebody approached me about it, they work at Walsh, and she was like, Hey, I think you'd be a great fit for our department and what you do and what your goals are, so I think you should apply and then they basically just gave me the job as soon as I walked in on that day. So both unique scenarios, but I've helped friends look for internships and those we use an app called Handshake. It's called Like the LinkedIn for college students, that's kind of what I call it. There's a bunch of employers on there. It's not as social media based. It's more about finding jobs. But recruiters can reach out to you on there, you can get messages, you can research companies, that kind of thing. So it's super helpful. LinkedIn is a great place to look, I haven't used as many job sites, they'll seem to be more like for full time positions rather than internships. But
Joe Troyer 20:27
if I was a marketing agency wanting to get an intern or more than one, you would say, it sounds like the Career Center, Handshake, and LinkedIn would be kind of the the three big areas. Yeah, yeah. Perfect. And you said that you're looking for an internship now. Right? You said you were talking to your dad about that. At the beginning, what are you looking for now in an internship,
Madeline 20:52
so I'm looking for, I'm sort of looking at bigger companies. Right now, I've had two internships that were largely driven by me. And by this, I mean, I came in, and they sort of had an idea of what they wanted me to do, but they didn't really know. So I created the work that I completed, and I'm sort of looking for a company or business that it has an internship program, they know what they want me to complete. And this often means that I would end up working for a bigger corporation, which, you know, is not something I want to do long term, but is a valuable piece to see, especially if I'm going to go work for a marketing agency someday, you know, having that experience really feeds into that. So when I'm looking for internships right now, I'm looking for places that have programs that are going to connect me with other interns, especially if they're from different places, will help me grow as a learner and then maybe potentially offer me a job at the end of it.
Joe Troyer 21:52
Your junior, right? Yeah, yeah. So you're getting you're getting there. You're about to graduate and got another year left. So what's, what kind of career are you looking at? What do you what do you think you'd like to do?
Madeline 22:04
I think, ultimately, like someday, I'd love to own my own marketing agency. Yeah, but until then, I, I'd love to work for a marketing agency or work in market research. So it's kind of open.
Joe Troyer 22:19
When you talk about market research. What do you mean by that?
Madeline 22:21
It can mean a couple of things. So I enjoy looking at how consumers behave, especially in specific environments, or in relation to different stimulus, I would like to lean into that. But this could also be like any sort of analytics, search engine optimization, any like information you pull in, that influences your decision making, that's considered research. So I'm sort of interested in the back end of that.
Joe Troyer 22:50
That's really cool. Yeah. In terms of SEO, I keep hearing you talk about SEO. But one of the things I've been really interested in lately, is leveraging consumer research to create reports that essentially are for SEO, like the sole intended purpose is to get other people linking to you, right, because of the consumer research, because of it's statistics, because it's a survey, because they need that content for their website for their content. And then they cite it, they source it, and you get credit for it. So something super interested, that I'm super interested about definitely consumer research.
Madeline 23:29
Yeah. I mean, the whole world's interested in it right now, like the whole data analysis, like, if you are unsure of your major, just going to data analytics. You'll have a job when you graduate. But yeah, everybody's interested in that right now.
Joe Troyer 23:42
Yeah, consumer Research consumer surveys. Yeah, for sure. Good stuff. All right. So Madeline, this has been awesome. I know that for anybody looking at building out an internship program, I know this has added a ton of value. If somebody wants to connect with you, personally, where's the best place for them to do that?
Madeline 23:59
Ah, LinkedIn is awesome. Facebook, Instagram, any of the social medias I'm active on
Joe Troyer 24:05
Cool we'll link you up in the show notes. In wrapping this up. I like to ask all my guests one question. Instead of asking you to recommend three books. I do something a little different here on the podcast. I ask what's the one book that's made the biggest impact on on you and your journey thus far? Oh, wow.
Madeline 24:24
Man, I I listened to a lot of audio books. And I read a lot of books. Most recently, the book that's had the biggest impact is probably Intentional Integrity. It talks about building workplace culture and how you can do that. Not just based on your position, but on your attitude that you bring into the office every day.
Joe Troyer 24:47
That's a new one. I love it. I'll have to link it up in the show notes. We'll put it in the show notes for everybody. And Madeline. Thank you so much for coming on. This was super awesome. And we'll have to have you back on again in the future.
Madeline 24:56
Awesome. Thanks for having me,
Joe Troyer 24:58
everybody. Joe Troyer, signing out.
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