Joe
Hey everybody, it's Joe Troyer here, and welcome to another episode of show me the nuggets. I'm super excited to be here today with none other than Lynne Askin. So I met Lyn at a mastermind, and little did I know, but we had a very, very close mutual friend. So I meet Lynn and it's like, Hey, what's up? You're really smart. Like he talked in the mastermind and and I'm like, man, we got to talk about that, right? Like one of those ahas, right? One of those nuggets. I'm like, we got to talk about that. And then like, literally five minutes later, I get a text message. And it's like, it's so great that you met Lynn. You know, you guys are a perfect fit, you should get to know him. He's awesome. So just small, small world and I'm super excited to bring Lyn on and share what he's been up to. He does some really cool stuff in the white label space like we do, and just excited to share his journey and to share with you guys the nuggets. So Lynn, man, thanks for coming on the show.
Lyn
hey, Joe. It's really, really my pleasure to be here. And it's really exciting to I mean, we've known each other for a long time. We were both in Stomper Net and whatever. But it's it's funny that our paths never really crossed the way they did sort of fortuitously there in Miami. And so I'm really excited to be on the show. excited to be a part of it. I'm honored to be here.
Joe
Awesome, man. So I'm super excited to have you here and to talk about your journey. You know, when you and I were chatting about before the show, I think your your journey is an awesome story, and I think it will. I think it will jive with a lot of people, right? They'll see parse parts or lots of pieces of your journey that's very similar to theirs. And very similar to mine till we got started in a similar space. So before we kind of dive in and go super deep, give us a little bit of a background on how you ended up in this crazy World of Internet Marketing or internet marketing and Stomper Net.
Lyn
Wow. Like how long is the show, like I literally could talk. I mean, my journey is a long one. It's, it's, it's kind of interesting and actually, you know Joe, I've always been entrepreneurial. I, look, I grew up in a house full of love. I grew up in a house where my parents gave me everything I needed. But we didn't have much money. And so anything that I wanted, I had to earn. And so, you know, I learned that pretty early and and, you know, we did a lot of chores and stuff like that, but eventually, you know, I had a lemonade stand. I had a paper out when I was nine, you know, I just I started earning my own money.
It's, you know, eight or nine years old, and sometime around, you know, 15 years old, I got a job as a disc jockey at a local radio station, turn that into a mobile disc jockey business, ended up moving that to Las Vegas and doing that there ended up in casino business. You know, it's a crazy journey. It's some point, you know, somewhere around 1993 or 94. I bought bought my first PC. I bought it from a guy who built it out of his garage, which was kind of pretty wild in the 1993. And then I'm like, Oh my gosh, I got this is amazing.
And so, you know, I tore that computer apart, put it back together, started building PCs for other people. At some point in that journey 1996 I started an online auction. So we built we built the ultimate auction calm in 1996. We sold computer parts, collectibles. I think that started my journey into SEO. And I started you know, we were at one point ranked number one for the keyword Beanie Babies in 1996 97. If I told you how much money I made selling Beanie Babies online, [inaudible]
Joe
that's amazing.
Lyn
It's kind of crazy. Um, at some point the competition from eBay was just too great. You know, I was working, I'm still working in the casino, it was working at the Mirage had a marriage that was failing, I was doing tech support on all these computers that I built, went through a divorce and it was just too much and I just closed it all down a little too early and we should have been a little smarter back then.
You know, during that journey, I met I met a guy a really good friend that was selling stuff online and and I decided to take those you know, I went to eBay did a bunch of tech support there ended up you know, but but he he sold a product that was consumable was back when we were, you know, burning CDs that you know, 1x and so, you know, he had a CD, he sold CDs online and he said,
Listen, you got to have a consumable product, something that somebody buys and then they got to buy again and again and again, so on and so, found a supplier and built an ink cartridge website in 1997, I think built that up to Over a million dollars in sales and I that site still running today it's not you know, it's not doing a million dollars now that competition is ridiculous and you know, we've moved on to other things, but that site still runs it still gets orders.
Man that's a long story, I'm not quite there yet
Joe
That's so funny. I didn't I didn't When did you exit the toner business?
Lyn
Uh, I mean, I'm still I mean still have the site
Joe
That's hilarious
Lyn
Yeah, I mean, I know
Joe
We were in the toner business well one of my business partner was, so it's just
So Ben Yeah, so I met Ben at Stomper Net, the first. He was like one of the first people I met there and we talked about toner. We talked about rankings and it was crazy. So yeah, yeah, I met him. I met him ages ago at a Stomper Net event in Atlanta. And
It's such a small world
Lyn
So we've known each other our whole lives, basically you and I just didn't really know each other basically. So So, you know, fast forward a couple years moved, you know, got married again had a baby moved to Louisiana was in my little cube this very office doing our, you know, basically doing on page optimization and SEO for our donor site. I think a representative like the local chamber might have stopped in to bring a welcome basket or something. He's like, Hey, what do you do here? Like I know you really wanted and I showed him that you know, we were ranked number one for maker toner an HP toner and, and he's like, Oh my God, we need your help. You know, like, man, I don't really want to I'm kind of comfortable here in my cube.
You got things kind of systemized. You know, everything was dropship. So I'd click a button and the orders would process I click another button and then it orders a dropship. And I and I basically, that was the extent of my day was was spending days trying to figure out how to market the site. But he was persistent and and I helped them and I ended up you know, We ended up building a new website, we helped them get optimized, we saved them from enormous web hosting contract, and they love me for it.
And it was, and it was eye opening to me that you know, every business on this street, and in this town and in this state and in this country needs a guy like me and you, are you with me that that, that understands this industry that can help them not be taken advantage of, you know, not get stuck in ridiculous contracts and hosting plans that actually can get the work done. And you know, so that they referred a client and they referred a client and, and we just grew and grew and grew, and that's how, you know, basically Raxxar Digital Marketing became. So
Joe
That's awesome man. I'm similar, such similar paths. And I think like so many other people as well. I've seen so many people get started in an agency so to speak, purely because they're doing e commerce or they're doing something else and and somebody stumbles in to the office, right? And is like, Hey, what are you doing? Right? Or a friend learns about it and one thing leads to another and then you become the the web guy or you know, the internet guy.
Lyn
Exactly
Joe
And from there, you know, an agency, if that's what you want to call it is born,
Lyn
Right? Yeah. And eventually you formalize it with an agency name and build an agency website and you come up with some crazy name like Raxxar and, and, you know, and you know, you just become what, what it is, and, you know, and we all have our ups and downs and periods of growth and loss and all those things, but it's, it's a really interesting journey. And at the end of the day, it's all about, you know, helping other businesses navigate this, this sort of, you know, technical nerdy stuff. So
Joe
Yeah, for sure. So I'd love to jump in speaking of the journey, love to jump in and kind of fast forward to today. So right now you're running what I would say is a pretty successful white label division of your guys's company and and in fact, when we ran into each other at the mastermind, everybody kept talking about how you're solving a huge problem for them. And hey, he's the guy that you got to talk to, about, you know, some some white label stuff. And I don't want to give away exactly what it is yet, but kind of talk about how you how you transitioned into that, because again, it is it is all about that journey. Right? I mean,
Lyn
Yeah, well, and I think there's a there's a journey within the journey. You know, it's it's interesting is that I, you know, at that mastermind, the mastermind is a is a is a group of, you know, as Josh Nelson's mastermind, it's other agency owners who have basically picked a niche and have really sort of focused in on a particular niche. And and it's a it's a great model for a lot of people.
Joe
It wasn't perfect for me, and you know, I struggled a little bit, you know, we had, we had been in the pest control niche for a while we had been in the HVAC niche for a while and it for one reason or another, those niches just didn't allow us the growth that we wanted. You know, the HVAC niche was all, you know, I was most of my clients were in one franchise, and they're just flat out, no, you can't take other clients in these other cities because we're trying to sell there. And so I was limited in that niche by the, by the franchise growth.
So I couldn't actually grow my own at that point. And I wanted more, you know, I'm seeing these guys being very successful in this sort of thing. And I, and so I was just struggling a little bit trying to find the right niche for me. And so I'm at the mastermind in Miami. And we're having this session about, you know, it happens every time you sell a new client, and they give you their money, and you sort of they have buyer's remorse instantly, like, Oh, god, did I do the right thing?
Lyn
You know, I'm spending money.
Joe
Just like we do
Lyn
Yeah, I'm spending a lot of money with with Joe or I'm spending a lot of money with Lyn or I'm spending a lot of money with Josh or whatever. And as an agency you've got, you've got a little bit of time there. But you've got to start delivering, you've got you've got to communicate and you've got to deliver some results and you've got to at least show activity. So we are having this whole breakout session about that process and about the first 30 days and you know, how you communicate and, and people were kind of throwing out ideas like how do we get how do we keep them happy until the website's done till we get the AdWords campaigns running?
Well, SEO, you know, where you, we used to be able to rank stuff in a few days. It's taken a long time now. And so, you know, there's, we've had to find ways to make this client happy. And there were people that were, you know, making a lot of good suggestions. And there were people don't make a lot of not so good suggestions or whatever. Yeah, I gotta throw anybody under the bus, but, but I was like, Wow, that's really dumb idea. But, but I mean, there was some and finally I was getting frustrated. I'm like, why is the website taking eight weeks? Why are you Why are you guys takings,Why can't you just deliver the website?
You know, why aren't we just delivering this gigantic asset to the client in the first 30 days or whatever. I mean, You know, and people were like, No, we can't Well, it's this and the client. And so we started working, we start talking about that. And it turned out to be the, the giant elephant in the room that that people weren't really talking about is that was a major problem for every single one of these agencies. I mean, these guys are marketing agencies, they're not web developers, you know, they, they, they get into these, these, you know, sort of courses and like, hey, I want to build an agency, and they're good at sales, or maybe they've done you know, other sales before and they're like, Hey, I can do that part.
And then they're stuck, because now they've sold it. Now they've got to deliver it. And so, you know, basically like, hey, what if, you know, what if we could deliver now I don't even know if I could do this at this point. What if we could deliver, you know, a turnkey website to you in your niche? I don't know for X dollars, whatever that number isn't gonna tell you what that number is. right at the moment but for X dollars, you know, if we could deliver that to you and I don't know, 14, 21 days, would that change your life? Would that change your business? There's a guy sitting next to me that told me he basically sold the client.
He couldn't get to the marketing money because he couldn't get the website done. You know, it's kind of hard to, you know you sell a client, it's hard to charge them $2500 a month for marketing, when you can't get the website done for two months. And so he is losing money every day that website's not up. He's losing money, he's losing. He's losing trust. He's doing so so. So I asked if anybody was interested. I mean, after the mastermind, I came home and I'm like, you know, that's a huge problem. And so I asked if anybody was, if I could do this, would anybody interested? be interested? that next week I scheduled 37 meetings with agencies that needed help building their websites.
And it's kind of funny, Joe, because, you know, just like, just like any of us would consult with with somebody, you know, like, hey, how do I pick a niche or how do I, like, you know, you'd find a niche that you enjoy working with and I love working with agencies. I mean, I speak their language. I mean, we know, we know each other, but we don't know each other. I know the problems you're going through right now I know the challenges you're facing. I understand you because I am you. And I love the working with those guys. And so pick a niche you'd love to work with, find their biggest problem and solve it's exactly what we did.
Joe
That's too funny man. Talking about similarities, like that's where I got my start as building websites, right? Because of the same thing that the other guy said, like, I didn't know where to start. And that's what people were coming to me for is like, Hey, man, I need a website. And I didn't necessarily like I would have never have picked that. I wouldn't be like, yeah, I want to be the guy that builds websites like I would have never envisioned that. But that's what the market wanted. That's what the market needed. And so that's what I sold the market. I wasn't gonna tell him No, like, no Lyn, please don't help me solve my biggest problem like No thanks.
Lyn
Right. Well, it's a little nut like, you know, coming from the background that I have. I mean, we've built yeah built hundreds of thousand dollars worth of worth of apps and and gigantic web development projects that are actually software. They're not websites, you know. So when I came home from Miami and I told my developer, I'm like, hey, yeah, this is what I want to do. He's like, No, I don't want to do that. Like, well, what do you mean, he's like, Lyn, you're going backwards? I mean, we just delivered $100,000 mobile app to a client. And now you want to build 1500 dollar WordPress sites? You know, I'm like, Well, yes, but it's a huge problem.
And I want to solve it. He's like, Why don't want to I'm like, tell you what, you don't have to. You keep building our app projects. I'm going to build an entire another division of our company. I'm going to hire new developers, new project managers, new content writers, new whatever, and I did. And so you know, in the last nine months, we've six new employees, seven new employees dedicated strictly to building white label WordPress sites.
Joe
Wow, that's freaking crazy. So that's crazy. What percentage of your business is that new division with white label and with web design versus kind of the existing core business?
Lyn
What's happened really fast? It's over 50% now, I mean, it's, it's, it's eaten. It's eaten, it's the wrong word. It's really we've really grown. I mean, it's, it's kind of, it's been explosive growth for us, and it's really good. It's good for us. It's good. We're developing relationships with other agencies and, and, you know, and maybe the, maybe the website, you know, it's maybe it's not as profitable as you know, anytime you do white label work, obviously, it's one of the challenges is not as profitable as having a retail client. But it's, again, I'm solving a problem and it makes me feel good.
Joe
For sure, I think, you know, it makes you get really, really good at your processes right at your system. Sometimes, and you have to be able to, you know, become a factor, you got to be able to take in a job, you got to be able to get it out fast, you got to make sure that, you know, the the first one looks like the 10th, one like that they all pass all the manual reviews and like you just got to really get your systems and processes down in my experience in order to survive and white label or you have no margins.
Lyn
Yeah, and I think that's what's kind of interesting, because, you know, everybody should do this. And in a way, I mean, everybody should, should have to be forced to make these systems so tight. Yeah. When you have a lot of money in a system that's easy to let kind of the scope creep go and you're like, yeah, it's no big deals few bucks here or there. But when you're working on the margins that we're working on, you really have to dial this in.
And it's actually a great exercise for us as an agency, because at some point when we have this all dialed in the web design process, the SEO process, the pay per click process, then we can talk about going after you know the franchise market again, we can go after You know, we can do it at scale that we couldn't have done before. You know, when we, when we had, when we grew quickly to, you know, 15 or 17 HVAC clients, it was tough. Like, you know, we didn't have the process, we didn't have the process in place for that. Now we do. And, you know, we built it in a interesting way. But now we have those processes in place to handle that kind of scale.
Joe
And what's crazy now is, when you're profitable at white label, and you sell retail, the margins are insane, and you can take the work fast, and it's not a problem.
Lyn
Right. Yeah. And that's kind of the plan for us. I mean, I think I love the white label work, but I but I think there's opportunity for us to pick a niche and go after a particular niche, or you know, whether it's franchises or something else, in that we can really scale this thing out. So, in a way, it's a little bit of a loss leader for us, but it's allowed us to build systems. It's allowed us to grow our team. It's allow us to add employees And add, you know, bottom line revenue.
Joe
So, for anybody that might be interested in working with you, Lin, how do you charge per hour by the project? Or how's that work?
Lyn
All of our stuff is really by the project. You know, we made it a little bit of a mistake in the beginning, you know, we didn't have the systems in place that was kind of a new thing. And we're like, you know, how are we going to do this and so we keep tightening down our systems and, and we ended up being a we end up being a consultant a lot of the time, Joe, I mean, we we basically end up coaching these agencies on how to sell our product. You get it you. I knew that we couldn't do this, the typical web design way, I knew we could not possibly scale this if this happened, like every other web design project happens. So we had to be really, really good at defining what you get, and what you don't get.
And, you know, I'm happy to build that other thing for you at this additional fee. Right? And a lot of times, you know, when people find out there's an additional fee, then they're like, No, I don't want it that bad, right? But, but when you can really, really define what you do, I think it's important for everyone, especially important in white label. And you have to eliminate that scope creep. It's just, you know, it's vital there. And so we we charge by the project, you know, and we have, you know, we have some packages afterwards for maintenance or whatever, if you need it, but but there's some add ons that you can add, you know, some optimization stuff, and that kind of thing.
Joe
So I'm curious with with Google pay per click, which is what we mostly do with invisible, it's about 95% of the business 90 to 95% of the business. Besides retargeting, we have a lot of retargeting accounts, but they don't, they don't account for much spend. So it just kind of depends on how you look at the business, but they're very productized. Right. And that makes sense for managing PPC or doing SEO. How do you productize and package design, right and web design, right? Because that that's difficult. How did you get smarter? What were the takeaways? Like, what advice would you give somebody? Right?
So that you don't get into that scope creep, which is, for me, was the hardest to control scope creep was when doing web design because everything is so subjective, right? It's not like your rankings went up, or they went down, right? Like, that's easy. Like you reporting to a client, you do an SEO and it's like, you're on the first page, right? your rankings are green. Like, that's, you know, what I would report but how do you how do you do that and manage expectations in design? what's worked for you?
Lyn
Certainly, it's certainly been a challenge. You know, but but over the last nine months or 10 months that we've been doing this, that it's definitely gotten better, and we get smarter every single day. What we did was we sort of sat down and we broke down the web design process and and wrote down Okay, here's a bottleneck. Here's the bottleneck. Here's the bottleneck where let's let's find all of them and let's see if we can find a creative way to squash that bottleneck, what can we do? And so a lot of them revolve around the client, you know, and so you know, you're perpetually waiting. And so what we've done is, is we've kind of, I don't know, I think they're kind of ingenious, we've created a few little ways to, to avoid that. One we coach our clients or agency clients really well to, to become the expert. So they're going to their client, and telling them, we're going to build this site for you.
This is what you need, or the experts we know, kind of stay out of the process, right? We're going to build a great site for you. We're going to we're going to match your look and feel it's going to be beautiful. It's going to meet all of your expectations, but you don't get to pick fonts, right? So we're trying to we're trying to coach our agencies to become the experts here. You know, if you can walk into a client's office and say, hey, look, this is what's working in Dallas, this is what's working in Houston.
This is also going to work for you in Las Vegas. And you can bring them results and you can just you can sort of dictate the terms of the website. Now, the websites are great, don't get me wrong, we're not, we're not giving you a shoddy website, and we're not trying to pass something by you. You know, they're amazing sites to build for conversion and all those things. But that's part of the process is, is expectations. And so setting the right expectations with the client on their end is really important. Now, on top of that, a lot of the, you know, imagine this scenario, you know, you get, you get a web design client on the phone, and you start going through a client intake process with them, and you ask them, you know, what's your key marketing message? Or what's your unique selling proposition? And they're like, what's that? Right?
So that that's a challenge. I mean, that that's a delay. I mean, that's a bottleneck for you. Imagine asking them even just to give you a list of all the services that they do, that can be a challenge. And so one of the things that we did I think's really smart is, is we in the client intake process, we've developed kind of a list of kind of why buy you know, when you ask the client, why buy from us, you know, what are your key marketing messages? We've given them a list can't and we don't say give me your list of key marketing messages.
We say, Can we say any of these things about you? Can we say, I don't know metronome? Can we say 24 hour service? Can we say, same day delivery? Can we say and we just, it's checkboxes for that. So it's like Check, check, check, check, check bottleneck is gone. You know, and so, we do that. And then in certain niches, we'll even you know, let's, let's say, lawn care, for example. We know what services most lawn care companies provide. Instead of asking them to give us a list of their services, we give them a bunch of checkboxes. Do you do this? Yep, check, check, check, check, check. So we've taken the client intake process and really, really systemize and optimize that. So that's the huge portion of it. That's just a that's such a big start. Because, you know, you can always template ties, everything else, you know, I guess Technically, I don't like calling our sites templates, because they're really highly customized custom sites. But I guess technically anything that you use more than once as a template, so, so that's why
Joe
Templage gets a bad connotation, template gets a bad connotation but it doesn't mean that it necessarily should, you know, as long as you're doing it, right, like the template should be getting better over time and should be like, it should be more valuable on day 30 than it was on day one, right? 10 months in, like you guys are, it should be so much more valuable. You've learned so much versus in month one. So like that, you know, templates probably isn't the best word to describe it, but I'm sure you could actually describe it as a USP for all of your, all of your agencies that you're working with.
Lyn
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we're delivering a, you know, when you talk about a website, you know, every website, every you know, most of these clients are local, whether they're dentists or you know, that's kind of the niche that we're working in is the local niche. Now we're not building e commerce stores. Hear for this kind of price. I mean, you know, we're building, we're building plumbing sites and landscape sites and lawn care sites, and so on and so forth. And so they all they all kind of have a basic structure, you know, we have conversion elements, you know, we've got the phone numbers, big and bold. In the top, we've got call to actions, we've got a why buy from a section, we've got testimonials, we got surfaces, we got a contact form, you know, embedded maps and a footer. And so, so you can, you can truly, in most cases, you know, don't get me wrong, there's scope creep still, you know, client will say, Oh, I don't like that font or whatever.
And you have to work around those things. And you got to build some of that into it. So I don't know. I think that's, you know, like you said, our, our templates, you know, air quotes here, templates are will be better next month, and they are this month. They're definitely better than they were nine months ago, but these are great sites. You know.
Joe
That's awesome. I love how you did everything preemptively. Right. I love the little trick. checklists, right? These are USPs. I don't think I would have thought about that. We've done a good job of taking like our services and breaking them down and saying, you know which of these services do you do. And we do that with with pay per click. So we have keyword stacks and negative keywords and ads and landing pages, all based upon services.
So that's great, but we haven't done anything like that with USP. So that's actually a really good takeaway, that that'll be speaking with our, our COO Janelle about over at Invisible I think that's, that's great, because, you know, conversions for conversions, the design elements are one thing, right? But then you got offers and we test the crap out of offers. But we're pretty typically planned on USPs because we just don't get any real feedback, right. So we got to go educate the agency, then the agencies got to go educate the end customer. And then it's like playing telephone and it's kind of make its way all the way back to us so that we can And actually get it implemented on the landing pages. So that's great.
Lyn
Yeah, I had a really nice conversation with Janelle about that in Miami. And so I think that's, that's something that you guys should definitely implement. I think it's a good. I don't know,
Joe
It's probably already implemented,
Lyn
I think so I would imagine. So it's a, it's really sort of changed, you know, again, every time we find a bottleneck or an issue, you know, we do the EOS system over here. So we have an issues list. When we come across an issue that we that like, Hey, this is a problem. How do we solve it, we stick it on the issues board, and we solve it as a team and we come sometimes we come up with some really creative ideas on how to to streamline processes.
Joe
So real quick, I'm gonna go major nerd level 10 real cool, and then we'll come back, but since you're doing EOS, who's your integrator?
Lyn
You know, actually, we're doing that internally. So it's it's technically it's me.
Joe
Okay, so um, So then it works. So I got a problem with EOS fundamentally. That for me has stopped me from using us. And that's just if the integrator gets hit by a bus then what? Right It's literally top down org chart. So it's you it's it's the integrator, right then it's everybody below. And don't get me wrong. Like I like that. I think everybody should be reporting to managers, but it's so top down. It's so skinny at the top. For me, I think about it like a rake. It's like I'm gonna, I'm gonna hit something and break the rake is gonna break right like that that person steps out. It's gonna be really difficult. So I like EOS in theory, but I've always been scared of EOS.
Lyn
Yeah, we have. It's been good for us. And again, a good plan violently executed today is better than a great plan tomorrow, right? We had to do something. I mean, we we literally had just get some structure in place here. We're not using at all. And when you said integrator I thought you meant you know, who's integrating EOS into your into your company? You know, I was I wasn't thinking of the sort of the integrator role in our company, because we do have a, we do have an operations manager and project manager that handle most of those things. So, yeah, if if I were to get hit by hit by a bus, you know, does Raxxar live on right now, you know, we're working on that. I mean, we're trying to build a business that that works without me. Right now, I still have my hands and fingers and everything, but we're getting there
Joe
I think with EOS. My concern is actually if the integrator right gets hit by a bus, because everybody reports to that integrator, that one project manager. And so the communication almost stops going through you which is great as an entrepreneur, so you can really free your brain and be creative and stand over [inaudible]. But if that integrator gets hit by a bus, you know, there's a downfall obviously,
Lyn
Right Yeah, I'm sorry. There's certainly there's certainly flaws in the system. I have a difficulty in the EOS system with the with the scorecards, you know it's really difficult to to kind of find the right metrics for our content writers when they're completely 100% dependent on how much I sell, you know, so it's really it's difficult to you know, we track you know, our our websites launched on time and things like that and but for me to understand a score of kind of where we are as a company, we're still struggling getting the right metrics in place there you know, if you're, you know, sit sit on the beach sipping a margarita and I can look at a scorecard and understand whether or not Raxxar digital marketing is doing well this week or not. You know, we're still struggling with those metrics.
We're having some difficulty I think, internet wise, I don't know. You keep kind of breaking in and out. I'm not sure if it's my internet or yours. Still there.
I don't know if you can still see me I you keep bouncing in and out of the chat so I'm not sure. Can you hear me
Joe
That was, strange,
Lyn
Now there you are, your back.
Joe
Sorry about that.
Lyn
That's alright. Um, well, you turn your camera off and then back on again. Yep. It just swapped the order.
Yeah, mine did too. So it did that when you left and came back.
Joe
Perfect. Okay, great. I'm really blurry right now, but yeah, it'll come in focus. There we go. All right, great. So you're just saying Lin that one of the problems that you have with EOS is related to tech. content and your content writing and then it cut out.
Lyn
Okay, so what? Yeah, so my problem with EOS is in the in the scorecard system. And so what's difficult for us to just kind of finding the right route the right metrics to measure in our scorecards, you know, because you want everybody on our team to have a scorecard, you know, they want to be tracking certain metrics. And in in our team, a lot of the, let's take the content writer, for example, the amount of content she writes or delivers is, is, you know, directly proportional to the amount that we can sell. And so for if she has low content numbers, it's not necessarily a reflection on her and so finding the right metrics for each person has been a challenge for us and because we're, you know, we're sort of implementing it ourselves. We haven't had all that guidance in that so that's the challenge that we have with with EOS are not using the scorecards. We are using heavily the the you know the rocks and we're using the level 10 meetings. Which we're having. They've been a game changer for us as a company.
Joe
That's awesome. Yeah, a lot of things are just so subjective. It's hard to really put KPIs on them, especially if you're breaking them down. Like you guys are on each and every department. So yeah, that makes perfect sense. Yep. So speaking of content, I'm curious, how do you guys handle content for for your local business websites that you're building for your plumbers? Right, I found when building websites that that was a huge bottleneck, right.
Lyn
Yeah, it is. It can be. And I guess that depends on your thoughts on on, you know, duplicate content penalty, you know, right. And so, I mean, we're writing we're actually delivering, you know, we're delivering turnkey websites, which means it includes the content, you know, we're delivering X number of service pages and X number of location pages. And so we're writing that content. You know, if a site if a site has content already, we'll take that content and we'll beef it up. You know if it's a brand new client or brand new site well write that content I don't personally believe there is such thing as a duplicate content penalty doesn't exist in my mind. I you know, I see that as a duplicate content filter, which is designed from from stopping guys like you and me from taking over an entire page, you know, with multiple websites.
If you know for your audience, I mean, you you probably know this already, but I don't believe that a penalty exists. And so if I were to write you know, pest control, Miami, Florida website content, it would never be in the same search pool as pest control, Dallas, Texas. And so there is no filter there is no content there's no penalty. Yeah, so so we definitely reuse some content and and we offer a premium you know, you want you want unique content on those. It's available yet but for the price that we're building these add for a turnkey website, the contract Great, it's optimized, it's, you know, it's got the h1 tags, and it's got the right amount of keyword density and sort of thing. And so we handle that by actually writing it for the client.
Joe
Yeah, I've proven that so many times, man, we used to sell, like niched out websites that came with content and kind of pre optimized and then for certain verticals we'd like literally rank over the entire country, like almost every city, and it was all duplicate. like nobody ever updated the content ever, literally hundreds of sites in the market ranking for the same keywords just in different markets and big markets, New York City, like the biggest markets out there, right in terms of cities and and it was fine so I don't have a problem with duplicate content. I think it gives you the opportunity to have really good content for cheap potentially.
Lyn
Right You know, and we we spend you know, we spend money on content you know, we we take on a client in a new niche we write really, really good SEO optimized content for that for those pages. We want to hand over a turnkey site that these guys that these agencies don't have to do anything to, you know, they're not they don't have to go. I mean, they literally sell it, we launch it, and they get to start their marketing. And so, you know, I've proven it over and over and hundreds and hundreds of websites ranked for the same keywords in different cities, exact same content.
Joe
That's awesome. That's awesome. So, um, I want to move a little bit away from white label. But before we do any last tips or thoughts you'd give to any marketers out there that are maybe doing okay. And they're thinking about going into white label any, any other thoughts concerns or just highlights that you'd share with them?
Lyn
Well, I think Yeah, I think that if you're if you know, you're looking to be a white label agency, and you're providing services to other agencies, I think, I think the key here and I think the key to marketing in general is to think a little bit about the psychology of it. You know, you're, you're, you're solving a pain for someone, you know, you're finding a problem in your market and you're solving that there's challenges, you know, getting your systems in place, scope creep is a huge deal. You have to really define what you get. You have to really, really define what your deliverables are, and set those expectations in the beginning. You know, we've you know, over the last eight or 10 months, we've we've done a lot of extra work that we maybe shouldn't have done, just because we didn't really specify in the beginning what it was you were getting. And so the expectation levels, you know, and we want to make our clients happy, and we're trying to create relationships, we see these, these agencies are our partners, they're not our, you know, or they're not a client. They're not another number, we code them in some cases will have way more experience in marketing than they do in in a lot of cases.
And so we become we become their coach, we become their partner, we become their, their advisor, we become, you know, we become their trusted advisor. And so I think it's important for you as a marketer. You know, there's so many things that go into a website, I mean, you know, you have to be part psychologist, you have to be, you know, you have to get the right words on the page. So you have to think about SEO, you got to think about conversion, you got to think about conversion elements, you got to think about site speed, you got to think about the design elements, user experience, and so there's a lot to know, and I'm gonna try and scare anybody from doing it. It's, it's tough. It's definitely it's definitely challenging. But the ability to, to, to build and sell on scale is what's very, very attractive about it. You know
Joe
I think the What do you think the biggest risk is is doing white label for anybody that's new.
Lyn
I think the risk is is the is a razor thin margins? I mean, I think I think scope creep is the is the biggest problem and all of it. I think the fact that you're selling it on a pretty thin margin, any extra work that you're going to have to do or account for, that wasn't accounted for in the beginning is going to eat your profits. And you know, and your soul. So, so yeah,
Joe
I think it's a conundrum too. Because your margins, like you said, are so razor thin. And if you didn't do a good job setting expectations, and you burn the relationship with the agency, you know, agencies bring you a lot of scale very quickly, but they can also take it away very quickly. And so I think that, you know, for me, I've in the white label game I've been burned many times You know, doing 30,40, 50 grand a month with one agency partner as a white label, and literally overnight for no reason like yanking all the deals. And I've staffed up, right to take on those deals, and we've had razor thin margins. And I think you got to be careful, especially careful and white label for the whales, because the whales will kill, you
Lyn
Oh, yeah, that's a that's a great point. And and one other point that I want to make is, is the, I don't know, you said it, you know, been burned or burned relationships. Most of the most the agencies I'm working right now are members of a mastermind group that I'm in. And I said at the very beginning, you know, and I basically talk to every client in the beginning and I say, if you and I can't be friends when this is over, I don't want to do it. Right. And so I want to make sure and I take extra caution to make sure that we actually can deliver and do deliver what we say we're going to deliver. Because if you don't, now you're burning.
Now you're burning an entire group of people, not not one agency, not one agency with a bunch of clients. And now you get a reputation in the particular market or niche that you're in, of not being able to deliver or whatever, you know, and we've had our problems too. I've refunded clients, you know, I, we've done it, not everything goes 100% perfect. But go in knowing that, that that your goal here is a long term relationship. It's not really about the the short term money. And so you've got to think through that. You got to think, is this really right for me? Can I deliver what i say i'm going to deliver? Because if you can't to man, that's a bad place to be
Joe
A hunderd percent agreed. All right, so in February, at the mastermind where we reconnected you made a awesome little quick presentation That I got really fired up about, about dynamic keyword insertion or DKI. And for those of you guys that don't know this, if you're running Google ads, this can be a game changer. I'd love to have you share quickly what DKI is what it means. And then I know that you shared with the group, the key thing that that plugin and the tech that you are actually using to get it done. So from for me, I've been using, as we talked about DKI for many, many years. We always build out the sites in just PHP and HTML because we didn't know how to do it in WordPress. And then you know, I'm at this mastermind and Lyn's like look at what we're doing in WordPress with DKI and I'm like, Oh, that's possible. And I've tried lots of plugins for it, but I was never able to really pull it off well, so super excited to have you share a little ninja hacker ninja tip with us.
Lyn
Yeah, cool. I mean, that's that's sort of the the nerdy side of me is I love that the, you know, the technical side, but at the same time, we've got to make these things, you know, we would we would build every site and just PHP or straight code if we could, and we wouldn't have any plugins and, and but at the end of the end of the day, the client won't be able to use them. And so we've had to sort of balance, you know, code, the size of the code and whatever with the ability for the client at the end user to be able to use the site. You know, when we, it's interesting when you actually do what you say you're going to do, and you can actually deliver websites in the way that you say they're going to do.
Other agencies start asking you, what else can you do? how, you know, I had an agency Atlanta, I had lunch with my family the other day, and it was the first time in so long that I've relaxed, because I know we finally have the best product on the market. And that's just a reflection of the fact that we're delivering their websites for them. And so That's, that's a really good feeling. And then then that guy says, Hey, could you do our SEO for us? Or, you know, where else can I cut, I was able to cut here, cut there.
And so, so then, you know, we've expanded, you know, now we do some white label SEO, we do white label, pay per click, and so on and so forth. And part of that part of that pay per click, obviously, as you very well now is having great landing pages. And, you know, anytime you're trying to do any of this stuff at scale, you've got to get really creative and you've got to get really smart about, you know, sure you could build 100 different landing pages but who wants to so we found a, we found a plugin, it's called DKI you know, and drop a link somewhere so you can share it with your, with your listeners. It's, I mean, it's really inexpensive and allows you to do DKI right in WordPress.
And so we're building out really nice landing pages. You can DKI just about anything in so we're we're dropping in the city names. we're dropping in the service. We're trying In the actual keywords and we're filling those things out onto the page and you know, if you know anything about quality scores, having having, I mean the quality scores everything, it's, it's, it's the, you know, it's the difference between paying $10 a click and $2 a click because your quality score and so getting the quality scores right getting the landing pages, right getting the right words in the text on the page, and really optimizing those things out is going to be a game changer for anybody doing Pay Per Click
Joe
a hundred percent so you got with landing pages, you got the aesthetic side, the conversion side, the thing that's going to help everybody convert, right and that's what most people are looking at, right when they're looking at landing pages but you also have the tech side right you have the the DKI side the the the responsiveness is this thing going to get a good quality score, the geeky side, the nerdy side of it as well, not just the aesthetics, and so, DKI can blend in and you can get the best of both worlds with a with a DKI level approach. And so dynamic keyword insertion will give you very relevant landing pages, right that that have the words that the user searched for, right. So if somebody searches for appliance repair, you know, city appliance repair Miami, you can dynamically create a page on the fly, where the URL contains that search term, right? And then also throughout the page in an h1 or h2 or in the body. Right, you can pre fill that and make it look extremely natural. And like that was page was built intentionally. Right. And you did that hundreds of times. Does that make sense?
Lyn
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's exactly right. I mean, we're, we're essentially, you know, if you wanted to hand code a page that was very, very relevant, I mean, obviously, you, you know, you've got title tags, you got meta descriptions, you've got the h1 tags, you've got the other tags on the page, you've got LSI keywords, you got to insert, there's, there's a lot of things that you've got to get on that page. To make it very relevant for the user. So there's a couple of things they measure the measure, you know, user experience, and quality score and stuff like that. And so having the ability to do that dynamically is been a game changer for us. Because now we don't have to generate hundreds and hundreds of actual hand coded WordPress landing pages. I mean, we know we generate one for each ad group, so to speak, and then we can really, really dial in on the the title tag, the meta description h ones, and we can stick that stuff in the page, you know, we stick something near the bottom. And so we're just basically inserting the search phrase, or, you know, in some cases, just the, you know, the main keyword in the ad group. You know, it depends on how tight those are. But but we're getting you know, we're getting amazing quality scores doing this. It would be nearly impossible to do at scale. If you were trying to do this manually.
Joe
What what's crazy is obviously the better your quality score. The less you pay per click right. And so this gives you crazy benefits without obviously having to go right out, like you said, all those hand coding 1000 pages. And it also allows you to scale return on investment, where you never would write like, there's just campaigns and there's keywords that you would never write out, or hand code, like you said a page for, it just wouldn't make sense. And because of that, your quality score on those types of keywords is going to be garbage and on that page, and so you're never going to show up or never actually even see an impression on Google because of it. So now you can now it makes sense to [inaudible] to kind of fight the system a little bit. That's what I love about it.
Lyn
Well, I think that I think that the point that you make, there is a really good one is one, I mean you wouldn't have built a page for that keyword but but it's kind of amazing. If anybody has ever looked at this the search keywords, you'd be shocked at what people are actually searching and like you had no idea they were searching for for it that way. I saw a statistic that one point I don't know if it's true. But you know, they said that half the searches on Google every day have never been searched before. And so it's kind of a crazy it's kind of a crazy thing to be able to sort of insert their actual phrase into a page and make the page relevant for something that you didn't know existed. So having the ability to do that, you know, helps your quality scores and help keep your cost per click down.
Joe
Awesome and what kind of results have you seen from this like what why are you guys doing it at the end of the day, if we just zoom out a little bit?
Lyn
Well, you know, that all comes down to to the cost per click. I mean, you know, some of the markets we're in cost per click is is insane, you know, Water Restoration, a termite control, all of those, you know, some of those keywords 45,50, 70 dollars a click. You know, we've gotten clicks $ 180 a click and I mean, some of those are just ridiculous. And so any advantage that we can find to improve our quality scores I don't know if I can share my screen but but if I could, I could show you. Let me see. Let me see if I could do that here.
Joe
Let me make you presenter.
Lyn
Let's see if it's gonna let me do this. It's gonna it's gonna let me share my screen unless I restart GoToMeeting.
Joe
Ah, no worries. I couldn't explain or maybe link up something in the chat. Maybe I'll try.
Lyn
Yeah, but yeah, basically got I've got a little kind of little chart that basically explains How cost per click is calculated, and it's the talks about the ad ranks. And so basically what happens is, is you know, every time an auction is run or every time it search is performed, Google, Google calculates an ad rank for for for each phrase or for each advertiser. And so that ad rank is the max bid that they're willing to bid times that are quality score. So, you know, if you're bidding $2, and your quality score is 10, which is amazing. Your ad rank is 20. You will outrank somebody bidding $8 a click whose quality score is only 2 you know and so, so getting the it's just a really a really good opportunity there for you to get lower cost per click by getting the by getting the quality score higher. And I think it's the key to successful Pay Per Click campaigns
Joe
a hundred percent agree, um click through rate, obviously, as well, right, to improve that quality score than to I see when you first crawl, that when Google first crawls, you'll get an initial quality score. And it seems really random to me. It's like, sometimes it's great. Sometimes the other pages you're like, why isn't this better, like this should be amazing. And it's just not. And it seems like it's a little flawed in some circumstances, like it's just not always the same. And the only way that I found to really beat that is you just make sure that you get a really good click through rate right out of the gate, you got to show Google that you deserve that click through rate. And so you got to show it some data. And once you show it some data and you get that big click through rates, it'll it'll very quickly show and your quality score too.
And you'll see the quality score jump. So just a little tip if you're doing this DKI hack. I think it's not a hack. It's a It's a crazy tip. It's really good. You should be doing it. But then you're so right. That the key is is is is your ad rank and so if you don't get good stats right out of the gate don't think like man This isn't gonna work you know the second step to really manipulate it would would really be to focus on getting some high click through rates and even if your budget doesn't necessarily align with that start with little keyword groups or ad groups and put your budget high for those so that you show a bunch so that you can get the click through rate and then your quality score will jump
Lyn
Yeah, I think they certainly account for your position on the page for your click through rate but but if you're out of line you know if you're sitting in the number one spot and you're not getting clicked is definitely going to hurt you so it's really important to have you know the the ads got to match the search the contents got them. I mean, that's, you know, it's pay per click 101 obviously, but, but I think sometimes people forget just how important those things are and and click through rate, quality score, all those things go hand in hand. You know, nobody, they Don't tell you the factors of the quality score. So you don't know. You know, it's not just about DKI, it's not just about what's on the landing page, that's a part of it. And we're trying to, you know, we're trying to solve that part. But click through rate is everything. You know, if, you know if my ads getting clicked and yours isn't, you know, I'm just gonna have a better quality score, and they're gonna show my ads more because Google, Google is all about, you know, obviously, they want to make money, and they're showing both of our ads. And I'm paying $1 and I'm getting click five times, you know, out of 100, you're paying $4. And you're getting clicks one time out of 100. They're making more money off of me, even though I'm only betting bidding $1. You know, and so it makes sense for them to show me more, because I'm getting a better click through rate. So
Joe
Yep, I would say obviously, as well, bounce rate is important if you get a good click through rate, but everybody's bouncing, Google knows that something's wrong, right? They, they want people to have a good experience and that's obviously not a good experience signal.
Lyn
Yeah, definitely user experience on the landing page is really important. So So again, you know, once again, we're talking about a little bit of psychology, we're talking about conversion elements we're talking about, you know, getting in the mind of the consumer that's actually searching.
And a good example of that is, I don't want this to sound sexist or anything, but I've done a lot of work in the HVAC market. Right. And, and the, the typical callerr, you know, the, the niche market for that caller is a 35 year old woman that's home with two kids whose air conditioners just broken. You know, that's, I'm not trying to say anything about society or anything like that. Just, it's just what it is. And so, you know, what does that what does that person concerned about when they pick up the phone? You know, what do they need to know what do they need to know when they land on your website? You know, so her pain is well my air conditioner is broken. Am I going to get ripped off?
Can I trust the guys that come out? Is the price that quote me on the phone got to be the same price that that I pay when they show up? Is there a warranty, are they gonna leave my house a mess are my kids gonna be safe, like all of these things psychologically going on in her head. And if and most most website developers and landing page developers are so concerned with, you know, talking about best service and 25 years in service, and they're not understanding the underlying part of that, what that really means. And what that means is yes, you're safe. Yes, we're going to be, you know, reputable people, yes, we're going to leave your house clean. And so why not just state those things, why not just get to the point and let her know as soon as she lands on the page, all of those pains and all those questions she has or immediately answered, just gonna stay on that page a lot longer, you're gonna get the phone call. And so there's a lot of silly psychology that goes into the, you know, web development, conversion and all of those things.
Joe
But that's super important and ultimately something that a lot of people don't get right. And then obviously leads to lots of implications down the road conversions and, and bounce rates and rankings and I mean, it just as collateral damage, so to speak in the long term. So definitely worth getting somebody that understands the industry, if possible, to really go in and write your landing pages and help develop the sites in general.
Lyn
Yeah, I think that's really important to understand. I mean, at the end of the day, it's not about you know, am I ranked number one for this? It's am I making money from it rank? Is it converting? Are people visiting the site? Are they pick up enough picking up the phone and calling and are they converting? At the end of the day? That's the real answer.
Joe
A hundred percent. So man, I want to wrap this up. I want to ask you one more question. It's been awesome having you on the show. So Lynn, instead of asking you to recommend three books, which I feel like is the end of every podcast is like, you know, what are the three books that you've read last and would you recommend them we'll do something a little different. I'm the type of guy that for every three books I pick up, two of them hit the floor pretty fast. And what I mean by that is I just I can't finish them.
Even if somebody said that they were great, like, I start going, and I'm like, this is, this is horrible. I'm either a chapter in and like, I'm not putting it down, or I'm a chapter in and like it's in the trash. So the way that I found to kind of weed out my books, is to ask for personal recommendations. And so the way I like to ask is, as you look at your business today, Lynn, and how you operate in your business, what's the one book that you think represents your business or your life in your business the best
Lyn
who that is really tough. I am, I am a voracious reader, like, okay, I mean, I read a lot of business books, and there's so many great ones, I don't even I'm going to try and narrow down to one for you. And let's see I I just finished the compound effect by Darren Hardy. I really enjoyed that. Just finished I think he was on your show recently Profit First Mike Michalowicsz was on your show. I want to start clockwork I thought it was really interesting the conversation you guys had around, you know, taking a month off. And I talked to my team about that and, and we're going to try and we're going to we're going to read the book, we're going to try and figure out if my business can run a month without me. So that's really interesting. I'm currently reading Atomic Habits, which is James Clear. I think that's something that I need in my life. But if I had to tell you one that sort of changed things for me the most would have to be it would have to be the alter ego effect by Todd Herman. Okay, now, I don't know if you're familiar with the book at all. But the the premise of the book is that you know, we each have different roles to play in our lives in different situations. And so, you know, I'm a husband, I'm a father. I'm a business guy. I'm a business owner. I'm a member of the community. I'm a leader to my team, I'm uh, you know, in some instances, I'm standing in front of a room talking to people. And I'm not always comfortable in every one of those roles. I mean, I'm I, as much as I love online marketing and talking about it and getting on the show with you. Doing it in front of a room of hundreds of people is not always comfortable for me. And so this book is all about kind of creating a persona to be able to step into those roles. athletes do it all the time, athletes have to have to perform at their peak performance. So they, they sort of get in a state of peak performance and who they want to be at that particular moment. Actors obviously do that too, all the time. And I've created that sort of persona for me when I have to when I have to do those things that are uncomfortable for me.
You know, I've created this persona of who I want to be in that moment, and I can kind of step in and out of that person. I don't have to be the confident person all the time, but I can for a few minutes, you know, and so that book, really helped me in a lot of ways, even as a husband as a father, my son is is the greatest gift I've ever been given. I have an amazing, amazing child. And I'm a good dad. And it means a lot to me. And so, you know, when I drive home after a rough day, sometimes I don't want to bring that in the house. And there are days when I consciously have to go okay Lyn, it's dad time, you know, and you go home and you'd be the positive influence that you can be and you block out some of that other world. What's really cool about that, what's really cool about that is that even though it's sort of persona for you, if you do it enough, you become that person, you become that good dad that focuses on your child, when you walk in the door, you become that better public speaker, you become comfortable in front of rooms of people. That book more than anything, I think this year, at least in the last six months has given me sort of a new life or a new new sort of outlook on things. So I love that It's, it's , yeah
Joe
That's beautiful, that's awesome. I've heard Todd do a keynote on that before. There was a, there was an event in St. Pete last year I want to say at the beginning of this year called Copy Chief. And I went there and it was a an event all for copywriters and he gave a keynote talking about this. And it was amazing. I thought it was really, really good. I'm curious if I heard that keynote. Do you think the book is still like Hey, man, yeah, you definitely need to go read the book again.
Lyn
No, I doubt it. I mean, I doubt it. I think you can probably you know, I'm, I like to, I like to go on, you know, I find the book I find it fascinating. Now, I'm not watching his YouTube videos, so I'm watching his keynotes and that thing, and so the book itself was a lot of why you should do it. And a little bit of how to do it. And sort of, you know, instances and a lot of examples of people who did it over time. It made it really sort of sink in for me that I that this would work for me. You know, believe it or not, I'm a little shy and rooms of people make me a little uncomfortable. And I have to and I have to stretch, you know, and I and I can do it. And I do. I just need, you know, I'm exhausted afterwards. And so I think just having a little system in place to help me get through that has been really good for me.
Joe
That's amazing
Lyn
I don't know if you need to read the book, but but I enjoyed it. And it's been good for me.
Joe
What are what are some of the takeaways in terms of how do you put it into habit? Right? If somebody was like, Man, that sounds amazing. I understand the concept. They go watch a keynote. How would they put that like into a habit or into a system? What would you tell them? Like what's worked for you? Well, I think it's like I love the keynote, right? But then if I don't go read the book, I'm afraid that I won't actually start. Start using it. Like I love that. For me. I'm the same like events kill me. I can sit in the corner of an event and people think I'm being rude and I don't want to talk to people because, you know, people on my email list or something, and it's just I'm not. I'm an introvert, right in front of a lot of people like, and I want to talk, I want to build relationships, but it's just not always comfortable for me. And I feel like over time, I've gotten worse with that than better with it.
And even like public speaking, like, I, I do it. I do it like every other month when we're not in a pandemic, but I hate it. And I have to put myself in an altered state for it to happen. My trick is, is I do a big clap. And I basically kind of do a Tony Robbins yell, and it is like and that just like it blanks me out for a second and and then I just start right into an intro. Hey, everybody, this is Joe Troyer and welcome to another episode, and then I'm like, in the zone, I'm in peak, and I'm fine. But it gets rid of the anxiety leading up to the moment.
Lyn
I've done this exact same thing. The clap the Superman pose that I've tried it all, I mean, it's, it's, it's uncomfortable, and I think I think anything is just a bit about repetition. You know, I think, you know, habits are formed from from doing things over and over and over again. And one of the things I think is interesting, we'll talk about another book for a second, Atomic Habits by James Clear, Atomic Habits is really interesting because one of the examples he gave about, about habits is, is becoming the person that you want to become, and it was kind of tied together in a way. So if I were to if I were to offer two different people, a cigarette, and both people were trying to quit smoking, and one person said, No, thanks, I'm trying to quit. And the other person says, No, I'm not a smoker. Who do you think is more likely to be successful? And so when you can label yourself Yes, I am this I am that you can even you know, again, you can pretend to be that you'd be this persona. You know, I am a public speaker.
I am confident. I am I'm able to work this room, I am a good father I am. And when you start to to become those things, I think, then your habits sort of have to match up with your and we talked, we talked about I think in Miami, we were talking about your own personal sort of ethics in SEO and, and, and, you know, gray hat, white hat, black hat kind of stuff, you know, can you show it to your client and that sort of thing. It's kind of the same thing, your personal ethics have to sort of be congruent with you where you kind of screwed up, you know, it messes with you mentally. And so by saying I am these things, it actually makes me not want to do the habits that that that are incongruent with that so, I think the two things kind of go together in an interesting way. So it's, it's habit forming. But part of that is becoming the person you know, just saying I am this person, and then you know, your habits sort of have to match that. It's interesting.
Joe
That's awesome. So, definitely, we'll have to pick up both the books just to take away from for me, you guys do as you choose. Lyn ,I'll be sure to link you up Raxxar in the show notes as well as Best Pest Marketing. Where's the best place for somebody to reach out to you personal social media or look you up on Raxxar and give you guys a call or what's the best way for somebody to connect with you?
Lyn
Yeah, I'm pretty flexible all of those ways. You know, facebook, facebook, you know, connecting on Facebook message me there, connect on LinkedIn is fine. You know, call us emails, whatever I'm really flexible in in, you know how I love to meet new people. I love to meet new agency owners. I love to help and mentor people along the way. And so, yeah, any of those and we'll get you all that information so you can get that over to, you know, to your audience.
Joe
Awesome. So Lynn, just want to say thank you. It's been awesome hanging out for the last hour. I'm sure people are gonna get a ton of golden nuggets, right, Show Me The Nuggets out of today's training. Thanks so much for just bringing the heat man and sharing it with everybody kind of from from the heart and from your journey. Right, not every journey is perfect. That's why it's called the journey right and it's about the journey not about the destination. And I think you did a really good job walking us through that and through your life and where you're at today and sharing some awesome takeaways with DKI with us and the book recommendation so man, I just want to say thanks for coming on the show.
Lyn
It's it's been really it's been a pleasure for me. You know, it's it's really good to connect with you again connect to you connect with your audience. share a little bit of knowledge that I have that that you know, it makes me feel good to be able to be useful to people and that sort of thing. So really appreciate you having me on. Let's do it again sometime and let's let's keep in touch.
Joe
Awesome, man. Sounds good. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode is Show Me the Nuggets. We'll see on the next one. Awesome, buddy.
