Zachary Babcock is a top-rated podcaster, and founder of Underdog Empowerment, a resource designed to help entrepreneurs build their personal brand and online passive income.
In this episode, Zachary shares the roadmap to building a profitable podcast from scratch, and how to maximize its potential in growing your brand.
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Joe: 00:04 Hey everybody, it's Joe Troyer here and another episode of show me the nuggets and I'm super excited to be here with Zachary Babcock. I'm going to bring on in just a second. For those of you guys that don't know Zach, he has an ex-convict turned entrepreneur and it's not something that he, he hides, right? He talks about it very blatantly, very open and honest and really talks about what he calls underdog empowerment and ultimately helps entrepreneurs launch and grow and monetize podcasts. So I'm super excited to bring him on and, and really go deep on building a podcast, growing a podcast and everything in between. So Zach, man, welcome to the show, man.
Zach: 00:42 Joe, what is up, man? Thanks for having me, man. I'm excited to
Joe: 00:45 Oh, I'm excited. This one. Finally, the audio and the videos
match it up. We tried to do this before, so thanks so much for, for bearing with the technical difficulties there.
Zach: 00:54 Hey Man, I, I get it, man. It's all, there's always something with tech, man. I, I sometimes I just wanna ram my face into a brick wall trying to deal with it.
Joe: 01:02 So I guess to get started, man, you, you have a great story. And
it's easy to see how a lot of people root for you, but for everybody that doesn't know you, man, can you give everybody a little, you know, two minute, three minute background [inaudible] that'll bring them up to speed real quick.
Zach: 01:18 Yeah, no doubt man. Growing up was this, a knucklehead didn't have anything really a really driving force and I made a bunch of poor decisions growing up, which ultimately landed me in prison. I did over five years flat in prison. I came home, I did four years flat the first time, came home for two years and I went back to this 20 days for my twin sons were born in Joe. That was it, dude. That was the moment. I was like, dude, I'm done. Enough is enough. I made a decision right there in that jail cell. Ended up doing eight months, but right there from that moment I started moving a completely different direction in my life ever since. Hasn't been easy. But you know, it's given me a, you know, a new perspective on life and now here we are today. Man.
Joe: 01:57 I'm curious what you thought really caused that change, Zack
was, was it the kids, what was that at? What you credit the change to and kind of the snap, so to speak.
Zach: 02:06 A lot of it. So if there was a bunch of events leading up to that and that was like kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back for me though, like, ah, it was like, man, I all I wanted growing up, I always wanted to be the father that I didn't have growing up. And so missing out on their birth, like that was so painful dude. But at the same time it was the best thing that could ever happen. So that was like the thing that catapulted me to the, where I'm at now.
Joe: 02:28 It's so interesting, man is entrepreneurs and running this
podcast and talking with so many people, there's always that moment that snap, that change that happens, that forever impacts, you know, the their entire life. So that's really interesting. And how'd you end up in getting into podcasting then? What was the catalyst or the light bulb moment for you?
Zach: 02:46 Yeah, so that was like three and a half years after I got out. And
this October 2nd, 2019 we'll be five years out. But I, every time I tried to collaborate cause I had a brand on like youtube and stuff. And every time I tried to collaborate with any entrepreneur, man, nobody took me seriously, man. Ah, I was just some ex-convict turn entrepreneur after thought that nobody gave the time of day two and a dude. I was pissed man. Like I'm not gonna lie. I was livid and I get it. You know, we all judge people, anybody says they don't, that's, that's a lie. We're literally wired to judge people. Like it's a survival instinct. So I get it, but I wasn't going to stay there. I wasn't going to let people hold me into that box. And so I decided to launch the podcast, became a top rated podcast or in three days. And Dude next week have Billy Jean is marketing on the show. And so I literally went from, nobody gave me the time of day two, the next week I'm interviewing celebrities and stuff. And it's just been crazy ever since, man.
Joe: 03:39 Yeah, man, that's crazy. So I gotta ask, how the Hell did you do
Zach: 03:44 Dope Dude. So a lot everybody thinks like, man, I got to have a
huge audience, or I gotta know somebody in apple or you know, I gotta have the low down or whatever. And, and here's the deal, man. Here's how anybody can rank your podcasts right out the gate. It's, it's for metrics that matter on on apple, it's called apple now. It used to be iTunes. They did away with that just recently, but the only four metrics that matter are written,
reviews, ratings, subscribers and downloads. That's it. That's the only way you're going to get ranked up. Nothing else matters. So in that case, all you need to focus on, and when you just start out in a podcast, you know there's a lot of people that have been podcasting for a very long time that have thousands, maybe even millions of downloads per month.
Zach: 04:26 So your downloads are really going to be small in comparison to
those others. But the metrics that push that up the most is the written reviews. So if you focus on getting written reviews right out the gate I've had clients that hit it within 19 reviews. Ah, Carlos Redlich of the copy closer podcast, hit it within 19 reviews was ranked up on iTunes and less than 48 hours. And then the most I've seen it take with any of my clients was Andrews Kaplan with shatter the mold podcast. He hit it with 56 reviews, so it doesn't take a lot. Just pump those reviews out and you'll get ranked. You won't stay there for a very long time cause you're, you're just starting out. But having that screenshot and being a top rated of podcasts, you forever hold that title. Now you can use that to leverage to get other guests on your show. And likewise,
Joe: 05:09 100%. So you're saying ultimately right out of the gate hit new and noteworthy, right. So ultimately written reviews is kind of the key leverage point to, to hit new and noteworthy.
Zach: 05:19 Yeah. Right out the gate, and also the top 200 charts. So, and you know, they, they did that, that algorithm changed. So it's weird now we're still figuring it all the way out, but that new and noteworthy, they, they seem to only have one new and noteworthy category for All podcasts and they don't have it for all the subcategories like they used to. But yeah, you could still hit that. It's gonna be a little bit harder to hit that new and noteworthy. It seems like they're kind of leaning towards favoring more of like the celebrity type shows, but you could still get in there if you're a known name at the moment.
Joe: 05:50 Okay. Yeah, I mean, I hit new and noteworthy, I think, right. Two
weeks maybe after we launched the podcast. And I think we only had like 30 reviews, 25 or 30 reviews and all of those were from me texting people and just asking, just launched the podcast. I need a review, please. Thank you. Was just all friends and family. Right? and that's that got me on new and noteworthy.
Zach: 06:16 Yeah. Dude. And that's so smart the way you did it that way.
Cause like so many people, they'll, they'll make a post on social media like, Hey, I need you guys to write, write and re review
and all this stuff and nobody's going to do it if you do a post that it's not, it's not personal. If you take the time and be a real human being and messaged somebody, hey man, I need some help. Can you, can you do this? Yeah. People will do that for you.
Joe: 06:37 And that's the key, like being a real human being and, and
asking like, I really need help. Please do this. Right. Who's going to tell, you know, if you're on a text message basis with them, everybody's going to go do it.
Zach: 06:49 Yeah, exactly. Cause it's a, it's a, it's a dialogue that's going on
and it's not like you're asking for 10 grand for a business loan or something. You're just asking for a written review.
Joe: 06:58 So you said something that was, that that was important, but
you kind of glazed over. I want to kind of try to recap it. So you said getting that top 200 are getting that top placement you then use to get top guests. Can you talk about that for a second?
Zach: 07:11 Yeah man. So this is one of the things that I feel like so many
people that are, they're scared, maybe not scared, but they think like, oh they won't respond to me. They're too big or whatever. And that's not the case man. So, so you get your podcasts ranked up. That's huge leverage point to get these, these other celebrity type guests on your show because you're, you're not gonna convince them with money. Some of them you could, but they don't really care about, they want to reach more people. That's their main objective. And you having a platform. A podcast is a a perfect in to get in there with him. And he just reached out, hey man, I want to interview on my top rated podcasts, your perfect fit for my audience. Think we can make it happen. Something simple as that and you reach out to you, you're not going to get every single person you reached out to. But Dude, I've gotten grant Cardone John Lee Dumas Neil Patel Andy Frisella like the list goes on and on just by having a top rated podcast and just reaching out to them.
Joe: 08:08 That's interesting. How much do you think the top rated really
mattered? But do you think it was just the competence of the top rated?
Zach: 08:15 I, it has, it's going to say that. So I think in the beginning it
mattered huge for confidence wise. Cause like after you have that and you're like, oh, I got a top rocky go, I can go after the big dogs now. But you know, it, I think it matters to an extent. I think it's, you know, being able to throw that in your pitch. Like,
Hey, I want to interview you on my top rated podcasts. That's huge. You know, cause it sounds more confident. It sounds more, you know, official or whatnot. But I think it does play a part, but mainly though the confidence factor where it comes into it gives you like that. Oh, okay. I got it. I can go after these guys now.
Joe: 08:49 So I don't, I think being able to say top rated like you said is
great, but what does rated even mean? Right. So I think it's just the angle of the email because what I've noticed is nobody does any fact checking or fact finding. And we've got some big names, coming, and we got some big names booked. We've got some big names that we've already had and when and at the end of the day, I think you're right that people just want that platform, right? It's like, oh, hey, you got a show, you got a platform of people, you got subscribers. And it's an opportunity for me to wow your subscribers. Yeah, definitely. Man, I'm in.
Zach: 09:22 Yeah, well, exactly. 100%, man. That's, that's, that's what it is.
You are a media source. That's what a podcast is. It's a media source and you have an audience and Pete, you're given anybody that comes on your show, you're giving them value just by come on the show to connect with your audience. And so for them to become your audience and essentially,
Joe: 09:41 So we do have a top rated podcast. We do have a lot of
downloads. But like, just being fully transparent with everybody, one of the things that I think so great about a podcast that I think goes missed and kind of people glaze over is there's no way to fact check how many downloads you get, right? You could be getting 10,000 downloads a week or you can be getting you know, five downloads a week and nobody's really the wiser. Exactly. So at the end of the day, I think you definitely have to have that confidence when reaching out, but there's no like fact finding that they can really do. And if you go look up, even like some of the top podcasters and the most highly rated podcasts and you go look up like their youtube channels, they've got like 10 views, 15 views, 20 views on on their videos. Like it's horrible. Just my, my, my point of view there is like everybody should be using a podcast like you said as a media platform.
Zach: 10:38 Yeah man. Dude. I mean look dude, I was a convicted felon that
nobody wanted any time of day to, you know, nobody took seriously and then do, my brain's exploded and it's because of the podcast. It's because of all the work I put into it as well. But podcast took it to the next level. It's a perfect end. Like you mentioned
Joe: 10:56 100%. So is there anybody that you think a podcast isn't right
for somebody came to you and said here's my, here's my situation. Is it right? Can you think of any nos?
Zach: 11:08 Yeah, I definitely can'. I, I can't stand the people like oh no it's for everybody or whatever. No, it's if you are just like, cause I don't know if this is how true this is, but there's like a thing I always hear like public speaking is one of the biggest fears of a human being besides death or whatever. And here's the deal. If, if you're just like so scared to speak into a microphone in front of people or whatever and that you just won't do it, then podcasting probably isn't for you. Yes, it is a legit fear and yeah, you're probably gonna suck right out the gate at it like I did. Like we all did. I mean that's how we're wired as human beings. When you came out the womb, you couldn't talk or walk right away. You sucked at walking, but you didn't just fall a few times. Like, oh, I can't walk. I'm just going to give this up. He kept going, man. And you, that you develop that skill to where you're able to walk and chew bubblegum eventually. It's the same with podcasting. Same with public speaking, same with growing a business, whatever.
Joe: 12:02 Yeah. I think at the end of the day as long as you have any type
of personal brand, I would imagine that it's, that it's right for you. And I would agree that ultimately you've got gotta be somewhat comfortable with speaking or willing to get over your fear. I mean, Shit, next week I'm at a many chat and in front of 1500 people speaking, right? Like I'm scared shitless. Right? But you know, you got to go do it. That's my biggest audience to date. But you got to go do it and you gotta go make it happen. Like you gotta ask yourself where you want to be and those are the types of things that you want to be doing.
Zach: 12:36 Nice on that. [inaudible] There's a big wind going on, many,
many chat and speaking in front of 1500 people.
Joe: 12:41 Yeah, that's a biggie. I'm scared shitless. Just totally honest.
Right? That's all right. Like I still get nervous when I jump on a, you know, a Webinar that's got 800 or 900 people live. I get nervous jumping on stage. I get nervous. It's okay. But I think, you know, those little moments define us. Hell yeah man. Cool man. So when it comes to building a podcast, growing a podcast, what do you think is kind of the, the 80, 20, what do you think are the big things that people gotta do and what do you think people are getting loaded down with? Like the bullshit?
Zach: 13:14 Yeah, the bullshit is here. I'll tell you what it is. Everybody I speak with, I'm like, well, what are you doing to grow your podcast? Like, oh, I'm sharing it on social media and I'm having the guest share and then my response is, yeah, and your downloads are probably shit, right? It's just like the ebbs and flows, are hardly growing at all. Right? And like, yeah, or whatever. And I get it. You know, you don't know what you don't know. But
Zach: 13:36 Sharing on social media should be the very last thing you do as far as marketing your podcasts. I'm not saying don't do it, do it because here's the deal. If, if, if all you're doing is sharing on social media, just seeing the ebbs and flows grow. And the reason why is because everybody on social media already knows you have a podcast and they check you out if they wanted to. Now the reasons why you should is because some people need to see it a few times before they actually take action. So that's one reason. Another reason is you get new followers. So that's another reason why you want to share on social media. So they actually know that you have a podcast. And then the third, the best part of it is having the guest share. That's the best part of that because you're potentially reaching a new large audience.
Zach: 14:14 So that's why you should share. But that should be the very last
thing you do of the 80 20 would be then to do exactly what we're doing is going on other podcasts that align with your podcasts. Go on there, do a kick ass interview, and if the people like you there, they'll come check out your podcast. The reason why they're a proof of concept that they actually listen to podcasts. Seth Godin quoted it himself. He said, guest podcast. And as a new guest blogging, it's what everybody did when blogging was a new thing that you've seen all the guest blogging. That's how people were growing their blogs.
Joe: 14:46 Yeah, 100%. I never thought about it like that. And I've never
heard the Seth Godin quote. That's a good one. We'll make, we'll put that in the show notes. No doubt. I got a bunch of SEOs and marketers on my list, right? So they're like, mm. Guest blogging. All right. Yeah. Guest podcasting that just some calm. Yeah, that's an easy one. No doubt. So what do you think are the top ways then to get on other people's podcasts?
Zach: 15:08 What I like to do dude, I seen your show and the top charts and
I just reached out to you the very first point of contact. I'm going to try his email. I'm going to go, I'm gonna Click on, it might be on iTunes or apple and click on your website. And then if you have a contact method on your website to email you like,
like we did then that's the first way I'll usually go about it. If a lot of times we'll be gatekeepers in ways to get around, you have to speak with them. And then I'll go to Instagram, dms, Facebook, I mean wherever I can contact the person that but I'll try to start with the email.
Joe: 15:45 Yup. 100%. And I got gatekeepers. You've got right through
them. To me it's not hard. Right. And show the show that you know what you're doing. It's pretty easy to get through the gatekeepers. That top rated podcast angle. I'm sure it works pretty well for you too.
Zach: 15:58 Yeah, definitely drop that in there. And every single pitch.
Joe: 16:03 How about like editing production, kind of, what are your views
or what's the editing or what, what's your 80 20 on editing and kind of post production?
Zach: 16:12 Aw Man, dude. So I, the first I like I sh I share my stats from
Libsyn, my downloads with my audience and stuff and share the growth and stuff. So like the first 10 months of my podcast, it was the ebbs and flows growth and I was talking about, and it was for two reasons. One, because my only strategy was sharing on social media and having the guest share. And the other one was because I was doing all the editing and the production and, and that will kill you, dude. There's a lot that goes into producing a podcast. I mean like let's just say you don't even putting out any videos. Let's just say you put up a podcast, you've got to record it, then you've got to edit it and you're gonna add the apple tags. Then you've got to upload it to your Libsyn hosting service. Then you've got to do the show notes and it's just a headache man. And there's a lot of stuff that goes into it and that's spending your time. If you're, if you're doing that, you're spending your time producing your show instead of marketing, which you need to be marketing it. So definitely recommend getting a, hiring an agency or hiring somebody in house to produce your podcasts. That's what we, we have them doing. It was the best decision we ever made.
Joe: 17:13 Awesome. And you guys do some of that yourselves, right too?
Zach: 17:16 Yeah. We've got a podcast production agency. I, that's why I
created it out of that frustration like, Oh holy crap, podcasters need this. So that was the whole idea behind it.
Joe: 17:25 Awesome. So I'm flowing kind of naturally then into that. How
do you promote to that podcast audience or how do you take
that audience and pull them off the podcast? Or what's your strategy for monetization longer term with the podcast?
Zach: 17:40 Yeah, Dude. So there's a bunch, like a ton of different ways. I'll
give you a few examples. Like, so , I teach all my students to treat every single podcast like a business. So your, you're obviously your number one goal is it's gotta be dope content that's going to be valuable. I hate the word valuable cause it's so overused, but a benefit added to your audience. Right. so that's obviously number one. Like, no, that's no question then what can you do in that episode to treat it like a business? Are you trying to grow your email lists? Are you recommending an affiliate product or are you selling your own products? You know, there's a ton of different ways. So I like to do like content upgrades. Amy Porterfield, I learned about this through Pat Flynn. Amy Porterfield does a bunch, like say we're talking about podcasting and then I'll have like a lead magnet where I say, hey, you know, I got, we cut what we just covered today is in here and we also do this, this, and this, and you can get firstname.lastname@example.org, whatever, and then they can go download it.
Zach: 18:38 So let's us, one way to like to grow the email list, or we might, I
might want to another one. Like this is just a real basic one. Like say I'm interviewing you, you, and I'm like, Joe, what's your favorite book that just completely transform your life? Then you tell me about it and I'm like, cool guys. We're going to link that up in the show notes. A Yes, that's an affiliate link, which means war in a small commission. No additional costs you, if you want to go support the show, boom, go hit the affiliate link. If you're like, Nah man, I don't want to support the show. Look, we don't even care man. Just go to Amazon and type in the book or whatever. You always got to be transparent about that.
Joe: 19:07 Yeah. Yeah. 100% got to give those disclosures, so. Cool. Yeah.
So content upgrades, resources linking to affiliate links potentially in the show notes. Are you one to suggest sponsors for shows or don't really like it or, yeah, potentially. What's your thoughts on sponsors?
Zach: 19:26 Yeah, no doubt. So we have a sponsor, a sponsor on our show, a couple of them. And, and it's definitely would do it. It's probably the, the, the least amount of money you'll see wise as far as monetization goes, unless you're like you're Joe Rogan or something, but it's a, it's a good way. I would, I would just recommend only doing sponsorships from a companies that you know, like, and trust obviously. Same with affiliate marketing.
Joe: 19:51 Yup. 100%. Okay, cool. So then in terms of like building up your
podcast in terms of, I guess, how would I say this in terms of like forecasting into the future? Like who do I want to have on my podcast? What aligns with my brand? How do you decide Zach, like who you go after and why.
Zach: 20:10 Yeah, Dude. So Google sheets is a free resource. Get that and
then a map out, like literally list out all the people that you want on your podcast. And so you'd have to know what your podcast is about, you know, like, and that what I call it is the four W's, the WHO, what, why and where. And we could go into that if you want to, but once you know exactly what your pot who it's for, what it's all about and everything, then everything else is easy. All the content creation. After that, it's so easy. And then you will know exactly who you want to bring on your show. And then you list out everybody that you want on your show. And then every time that you pitch for them to come on your show, take a note on it in your Google sheets. That way you're a staying up to date with everything.
Joe: 20:53 Yep. Have you been able to do well with referrals and
recommendations from guests to get, you know, to do intros and to get other people on the podcast as well?
Zach: 21:02 Yeah, I saw like that's one of the things like if I'm interviewing
like a grant Cardone I'm not gonna ask him to, like, sometimes I'll, sometimes I'll ask guests that are coming on the show if they have like a con, like a content upgrade that they can give, like a lead magnet that they can give me, that I can give away to my audience to build my list. But I wouldn't ask grant Cardone for that. So the asks that I'll ask grant Cardone or something or someone like that would be maybe a connection. But that would be after, you know, we built a really solid relationship and we see, he sees, I'm really cool dude. Or something. Main thing is like, you know, with those big guys to really just, you know, have that relationship cause that's valuable in itself.
Joe: 21:43 Yeah, 100%. The reason I ask is we got ghosted by some people
reaching out. Not very many, but it does happen, you know, ultimately trying to get them on the podcast. And my, my, my assistant that runs the podcast ultimately realized that that two of our guests were very closely related to each other. They knew each other well, they did business together. We got one on the podcast successfully. The other one was just ignoring us right and left. And so we just asked for an introduction. And it worked super well. Like the, the gatekeeper just folded right through to the, the person that we wanted on the show. And
like three days later they're on, on the show. So that definitely worked really, really well for us.
Zach: 22:26 That's awesome dude. Yeah, let's see. To the gatekeeper folded
Joe: 22:33 It was just like, all right. Yeah. Sorry, I didn't let you through for
you know, before. Actually, so that works really, really well. Any other tips or tricks on getting guests? The, the top rated I think should get them probably, I don't know, 75% of the guests. At least in my experience so far we haven't had many no's or ghosting so far.
Zach: 22:56 Yeah, Dude. So just having the podcast alone like you met, like
we talked about before is a huge value add, but some added onto that would be maybe like free for just starting out. My first big guest was Billy Jean is marketing. I had a, I had a relationship though with him because I met him in person at an event about a year prior. And so that kind of played a factor into that. But I try to, I try to have him come on one of my summits when I didn't even know what the Hell I was doing in my business and he opened up the message and totally goes to me. But then when I showed him about the podcast, he literally responded right right away for his assistance email. So start with somebody. You might have a connection with or somebody maybe not like as big, like as Gary Vaynerchuk or something like that. And what you do then is you build up, you know, and like after you get that first person, maybe they're not like a Gary Vaynerchuk, but they're still well known, then you can use that as leverage your top rated podcast and perhaps guests for the next one I got in my notes app, I got links to every single episode of any body that people know my, Hey, we've had him, him, him on. I've also went on these shows right here. Boom. You know, and that way it's an instant credibility factor.
Joe: 24:07 Yeah, that's huge. So we have a lot of agencies on our podcast,
a lot of marketers that run digital marketing agencies. If you were in their shoes, I guess any ideas on angles on how to use a podcast?
Zach: 24:25 Yeah, man. So that's a really great question and to be the, I just
want to be completely honest, I don't use my podcast really to build my agency. I really just, I've been in, to be honest with you, with my agency dude, I've been building it just off a strictly running offers for my podcast program, helping people launch and then referrals after that. It's been, it's so many referrals come in after that after you get people results. But for your agency you can plug it in to the show. Like we're in every single
episode and I wouldn't do like a prerecorded when I would do like a legit, like, hey, you're talking new fresh each time talking about your agency interview, interview people that are in your age, your clients on there and interview like three to four of them on the same episode. So that way their stories connect with different people in your audience. That's another way to sell your products and services. Yeah, that's how I'd go about it.
Joe: 25:18 Cool. Yeah, I mean ultimately I agree with you and I think a lot
of people, a lot of agencies especially, they're like, they, they consume a lot of podcasts, right? As marketers and they're like, this is great, but they don't, they don't see how it applies to them. And I'm like, what do you mean? Like, I think it's an easy win, right? So let's say you're a niche focused agency, you're going after one vertical. It's like go get all the software companies, go, go get all the people that have your customers and get them to come on right to add onto the podcast, onto your platform, right? And now you can start advertising to their customers and bringing them all, hey, I just had this amazing, you know, piece of content with this person. It just seems like such a no brainer, but I feel like, I feel like as marketing agencies, like everybody's missing the boat personally.
Zach: 26:03 Yeah. You know, you, you know, it is this kind of slightly off
topic, but it's, you sparked this idea that I've had for quite some time, but you know, it'd be really cool dude is if you could have a pixel on your podcast for anybody that listens to your podcast and then retarget those people that listen to your podcast. I think that technology needs to be created like near, near future certain cause that would be all over that. That'd be pretty cool. That'd be great. Yeah. That would be a great way to build your agency
Joe: 26:32 Testing at the moment by gathering the, the the device id from
the phone. From the feed.
Zach: 26:40 Yeah. And then being able to re-market
Joe: 26:43 [Inaudible] Yep.
Zach: 26:46 [Inaudible]
Joe: 26:47 100% I think. Whenever you're running a podcast, I love your four W's, but I think you got to figure out who's your market, who has your market, who's got influence, right. And you gotta bring those people to the show. And then who would add value to my, to, to my customers. And then ultimately get your
customers on there to talking about their wins and their successes. And that should create an amazing, very synergistic podcast.
Zach: 27:12 Yeah, man. 100% dude.
Joe: 27:14 Awesome brother. So tell us a little bit about your podcast
agency, man, I'm a little time for you to do a little promo and we don't usually do this, but if somebody is running, if somebody is trying to run a podcast, right, they need some help, what should they be looking for in a podcast agency and what do you guys have to offer as well?
Zach: 27:29 Yeah, definitely man, you, you want to, whenever you're doing,
whenever you're recording podcasts, you just want to hit record and then maybe fill out a little information about the podcast and then that's it. And then just send it off to somebody and then it's, everything's done after that. You don't wanna spend your time. Oh my God, doing the show notes and all this, all this other stuff that goes into it. It really takes up a lot of time. I've suffered through that through 11, 10, 10, 11 months. And I, I see now how much more time than I could've spent building my business or growing the podcasts or whatever it is that I spent, just spending time with my family, whatever. So whenever you're looking for an agency, you want to make sure that they can deliver that in a timely manner.
Zach: 28:13 Usually like we, we say, you know, hey, if you're going to get
something, you got to give us a seven day. We have a seven day period where you gotta get it in. We're not going to like turn around and do it the next day. We can, we will if we can. But we, we, you know, we make sure we protect ourselves. Like, Hey, it's turn in seven days beforehand. We'll get it up there and we'll create the show notes, the, the sharing, the social media sharing images, the videos, what not, you know, you want to go for whatever fits you. You got to think about, cause this is kind of a hard, it's kind of like a general question, but you gotta think about what do you need? Do you need the a, the videos and the Promo assets that you can share with guests and have them share?
Zach: 28:47 How is that something that you want? Do you want to have the
transcripts, you know, that helps you rank up in your show notes. So people are finding it there. You just really decide what it, what it is that you're looking for and they look at whatever agency that you're looking into and see what they have to offer. And then a, test them out, make sure that they we don't do contracts. I don't believe in that. I believe in like, Hey, if our, if
our products are good, you'll stay with us and they'll need to like ink you in. And then do like a trial run. We do a 30 day evaluation. If you like us, we keep rolling. If not, you know, hey, no worries.
Joe: 29:21 Yeah, that's great. What should people be looking at in terms of
broad strokes? Budget? It's obviously giving change if somebody wants a transcript or if they don't or you know, depending on what kind of package, if it's video versus just audio, but what should somebody be looking at to really put up a podcast and to be able to truly step back from it? Right. And just show up, record the episodes, do their thing, and be able to really leverage podcasting as a platform.
Zach: 29:45 Yeah. You talk about like, like w how would you look at it as far
as price wise?
Joe: 29:49 Yeah. What should somebody be looking at in terms of budget?
Zach: 29:53 Yeah. So yeah, broad stroke, I would say anywhere from like 700
to 1500. I know there's agencies out there that charge a lot more. And I'm not knocking them in any way, shape or form. I was just thinking about it from my perspective when I first got started, I didn't have like a huge budget to work with. And so I wanted to be able to offer something for those people that wanted to get started. And then, you know, you know, $700 a month isn't, isn't a huge ask, you know, especially with all the work that goes into it.
Joe: 30:22 No, 100%, especially if you're doing it right, right. If you hit those four W's and you're truly getting leverage out of the podcast, 700 bucks should not be a big deal at all. And definitely I think it's important. Like running a podcast is, is difficult. There's a lot of moving pieces, frankly, it's a lot of work. So much so that we started running a podcast years ago and I abandoned it because it was a problem keeping up with it was an issue. So I had somebody from our team actually running the podcast. They were running it every day. They ended up leaving the company and they're like, here you go, here's everything. And I just like looked at it and froze. I'm like, no, no, thanks. Like so I swore that I would do a podcast again, but the only way that I would do it is if I just had to show up and have fun and interview awesome people like yourself. Like who wouldn't want to have these awesome conversations like a couple of times a week? For me it's a, it's a no brainer, but you gotta have a team available to do the heavy lifting and the team that you can count on to, to ultimately make sure that everything gets done and done. Right.
Zach: 31:28 Yeah, man. 100% on all that dude.
Joe: 31:31 So cool man. Any closing thoughts before the last question
here? Anything else in terms of 80 20 that you think the audience should know?
Zach: 31:39 Yeah man. Just get out and do it dude. Like it. Cause there's like
so many people don't start a podcast cause it's either they're scared because they're like, oh, I'm going to suck and what not. Nobody's gonna listen and you probably are going to suck at first and that's okay. Just get out there and do it. I sucked at first too, but hey, it was the best decision I ever made. And then also people get overwhelmed with the workload like we just talked about. So I mean if that's the case and you've got like stuff the run their solutions out there for like we just mentioned, where you can have it all done for you, you just hit the record. But the 80 20 get out there and do it and then focus on the growth of your podcast instead of the production getting on other shows. It's a huge one. That would probably be the 80, 20 on a bit. Make sure there are shows that align with your show that they be direct correlation with audience
Joe: 32:32 100%. Awesome. Good, good tips and good recommendations.
Definitely help everybody be on the bleeding edge and make the most of their podcasts. That's fantastic. Thanks. so I always end the podcast asking for a book recommendation, but I do something a little different. So I ask people to, to recommend one book that has made the absolute biggest difference in their business. Not like these three things or these three books were great, but you haven't implemented any. So as you look at Your Business and you think about difference and impact that a book has made in Your Business, what, what book would you correlate that
Zach: 33:09 If we're talking strictly for business? Man, that is so like if it was
just period, it would easily be man's search for meaning by Viktor Frankl, but a man just for business, I would say I would say mastery by Robert Greene. And in any other book by that guy had to, I got to interview the dude is a genius when it comes to his deep, deep understanding of, of human nature's this incredible bit. The reason why I say mastery's because in our space you see it all the time. You see the self-proclaimed entrepreneurs, the self proclaimed personal branding experts that have 243 followers and haven't built up any skills claiming whatever on social media. And it's a joke and I'm not trying to knock these people cause you're trying to go out after your dreams, but you got to, here's the deal.
Zach: 34:05 You had to develop these skills first. And so like one of the
biggest takeaways he talks about in that book is there's three levels of mastery. First, when you first enter a new industry, your first goal isn't to get attention or to prove yourself. Your first goal is to observe the landscape. What are the unspoken rules? What are the social dynamics? How does everything work? What are the skills you need developed? Then you move into the second phase, which is the longest phase of actually developing these skills. You start becoming a practitioner of your own ideas and in gaining these skills and developing them. And then finally move into that third phase of mastery where you put in 10,000 plus hours, you become a true master, a true expert. And I now you can begin to bend, break, manipulate the rules. It's just a really great book on actually a mastering skills and that's where it's made a huge difference in my business.
Joe: 34:55 Awesome man. Yeah. Thank you for that. And the personal
recommendation, would you talk about that book a little bit and why as well?
Zach: 35:01 Yeah, Dude. So A man's search for meaning, this Guy Victor
Frankel went through the Nazi death camps and makes my five year prison sentence look like a daycare. Like it was like a, like it was nothing like it was, it's brutal. Right? In the first half of the book, he goes into deep detail of how Ho like his experience of being in there. I can't remember like it was six or seven years and, and, and it's horrible, right? But he's also a a psychotherapist or psychoanalysts or can't remember bit. And he then he, the second half is explaining what he learns in there. And one of the big takeaways he talks about is, you know, you have all this stuff that happens to you on the out, on the outside, the external stuff that you can't control sometimes. And then you have your response to it.
Zach: 35:49 And he talks about no matter what, you could be stripped of all the freedoms in the world like he was. But there's one freedom that nobody can take away from you. And that's how you choose to respond to whatever happens. And like so to give an analogy real quick, a tornado could come through and wreck your house and, and kill your family and God forbid all that happens, right? But that could happen. You have no control over that. And so you could either decide to be bitter and miserable and kill yourself or go out and kill other people. Or You could decide to eternalize that and go out and create something that helps other people in those situations or you know, something that's empowering or whatnot, regardless of what you decide to decide to do. It's your choice on how you decide to respond. And so that leaves you with the power and
at any given moment. So that's a, it was, that book is a transformational book. It's not just a couple of golden nuggets. It's like, it will literally change your perception on life.
Joe: 36:43 I love it. I'll be downloading both on audible. Thank you. Great
Recommendations, Zach, and thank you so much for coming on the show, man. So in the show notes, I want to link up to your podcast service. I'll link up to your podcast. Anything else that I should link to in the show notes for you.
Zach: 36:58 Hey Man just really underdog empowerment.com. If you want
to come check out the podcast, it's right there on the front page. Yeah, man, I hope you guys enjoyed the interview. Hope to see you guys over there, and Joe, thank you so much, man for having me on and can't wait to have you on my show as well.
Joe: 37:11 Yeah, man, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate all
the words of wisdom and the fast track for podcasting man.
Zach: 37:17 Amen. Likewise, dude. Thanks for having me.Joe: 37:20 See you, everybody. Bye, boss.