Josh Nelson: 00:18 So, I mean from a retention perspective, a couple of things, the,
the way that you start the relationship sets the expectation for the longterm relationship. So we really try and go out of our way to make the initial 60 days really hands on and really impressive. So we send them a welcome basket in the mail. They get a $75 welcome aboard. We're excited about working with you. We've got a really well mapped out, onboard process where we gather the usernames, passwords on multiple calls to kind of set, you know, what, you know, what's your unique selling proposition? What assets do we have? You know, and, and really set the expectation out of the Gates early after that. Really it's about the results and the service that they get. And one challenge we found in our agency and we find it with a lot, is they think that the results are going to carry the day, right?
Josh Nelson: 01:05 Just because the client's getting calls and return on investment, they're going to be happy. And that's unfortunately, it's not the case, right? They need to feel a pursuit. You know, like the number one reason a client will leave is perceived indifference. Like they just feel like you don't care, you're not engaged and you're not like thinking about the next step. So you have to have a process where you're meeting with them on a monthly basis, you're pursuing them for that month of review. You're kind of showing them not just the value in the activity and the return, but you're also always planting the seed in terms of what's next. I think that's the biggest reason people stay is they feel like, okay, plumber SEO is thinking about the next thing. You know, how are we going to drive more paid search? How can we tap into local service ads? You know, how can we tap into social media advertising? And to the extent that you're, you're planting those seeds in terms of what's next, the client usually is going to stay with you longterm.
Mads Singer: 02:00 First and foremost, I'm, I don't think I'm a little obsessed. I think
I'm a lot obsessed with this. But besides that yeah, I mean for me it's what made my management career. It was, I mean, when I started studying and find it, it's the reason why I've gotten to where I am today. Right. that, that's a lot of personality and sort of behavioral models out there, right? Like my ass breaks is very common. And so on this thing about it, the, the thing that really makes disk stand out is the simplicity of telling who other people are without them doing a test. Right? So basically like, like one of the things that, I'm, I say it all the time, but one of the things I like is when some random dude I've never met comes in and sit down to me next, next to me in an airplane, I can generally tell him things about himself he doesn't know yet.
Mads Singer: 03:00 Right? And that is an ability that no of behavioral model gives
you, right? Like most of these behavioral model, they're always like, Oh, can you take this 20 page test and then I will know who you are. But the problem is that first of all, people, some people don't know themselves that well, right? And that means that the, how they answer questions is very subjective. Second of all, particularly if you're looking at it from a hiring perspective, when you're looking at it like when employees feel they're getting evaluated, they very often, and so what they expect you want to hear rather than what they really think. And no matter how much you tell them, that's not the case. That is how the human brain works, right? So for me, in majority of cases, like when I get emails from people, I can get a, a, a simple email from people and that, that can often tell you a ton about the personality and who they are. Right? And, and the ability to, to really read people true natural behaviors is really so powerful because it tells you their motivations, it tells you how they want to communicate. It tells you like all of this good stuff. Right? And when you learn to be able, I mean, it takes a little bit of while to get into it, but majority of my clients, again, they learn to love it as much as I do. Right? and, and they, they really like from an interview perspective, from finding the right people. I again, right? Like
Joe Troyer: 04:29 Most people don't understand that. And I think the second
thing with personality types is, and I'm sure it's the same for disc is, is, you know, as an entrepreneur, as an individual, what types of people or personality traits you work best with.
Mads Singer: 04:43 Yeah. And so the one thing I would generally say is I, I like
having a good mix of people in, in teams, right? Like, when I build companies, when I build teams, like I, I have a fair mix of people, right? But the whole thing is like, some people naturally breathe and dream about spreadsheets, right? And for some people, they make no sense. Like for some people, even learning simple things like formulas and stuff can be really, really challenging. And the whole thing as a human being, if you want to learn to be exceptional, you need to learn to profit on your strengths, right? You need to push your strength or all these people that are like, Oh, I'm not good at this thing. I want to learn it. That, that's the road to petition, right? Like it's not, it's not the way to do things. There's certain things that, the only one thing that I recommend all human beings to work on is communication, right? Because we all communicate and if you're not an effective communicator, no matter what other skills you have.
Maxwell Finn: 05:43 So the triple the retargeting methods, I mean, I talked about it's,
this is going back a little ways. It's my first Facebook course. I, I still think it's highly applicable. But basically it looks at, you know, kind of pre-purchase and post-purchase and breaks down into different buckets. Right? And so we'll, we'll, we'll get away from that naming convention just cause it has evolved since then. But what I think is really important when you talk about retargeting is understanding that people are at different points in the journey. So, you know, talking about mistakes people make, we can add a fourth one there that ties into this, this discussion, which is a lot of businesses treat all of their prospects the same, right? So they, the way they retarget is identical. Whether you're a first time page viewer or you visited the site 10 times, you've added two products of the car and you still haven't bought, right?
Maxwell Finn: 06:41 Those are two very different people. The objections that you've
overcome for the second person, way more in depth than the first person, right? The first person, they're still, they don't even know if the product's right for them, right? They don't even know if they have the problem that your product solves or the second person they know, Hey, I have this problem. I need a solution for it. This solution sounds really interesting. They might sell a few lingering objections, right? Maybe it's like, Hey, you know, there's a lot of competitors out there. What is, what makes this unique from the competitors? Right? How doesn't have any doctors that have, you know, or celebrities or authority figures that I've endorsed at CNET. Does it have, you know, Oh, great unboxing videos and UGC, things like that. And so retargeting really needs to be looked at as a journey instead of just a one size fits all.
Maxwell Finn: 07:26 Hey, anybody that triggers a custom audience or enters custom
audience, we're going to hit him with the same testimonial at [inaudible]. You're not going to get results that way. Right? You may get some results. Is that, that's, that is the, the challenging thing sometimes with success is that if you started doing better than you've ever done before, you get this false sense of confidence that you're doing everything right. It's like, Hey, I'm making more money today than I've ever made before, so why would I change things up? But what you don't see is that you could be making a lot more money, right? Like just like you didn't see it if you months ago when you weren't making at that point you thought you were making as much money as possible, but you've grown from there because you've tried new things. And so success can be a dangerous dangerous, a problem for a lot of marketers and entrepreneurs just because of that gives them a false sense of confidence.
Maxwell Finn: 08:20 Right? And so, yeah, I think breaking up, you know, people that
have just viewed 25% of the video, people that have engaged with your pages, people that have visited any page on your website, people that have visited key pages on your website, people who have spent the most time on the website, people that have added the car, people that initiate checkout, people that have bought, people that have bought more than once. People that have bought and spent two times more than the average order value, right? There are so many segments. And the message for each one of the segments needs to be different, right? And not only that, it's not just about the objection blocking, it's also about personalization, right? So maybe you have, you know, two people that are both at the abandoned cart phase, but one's a man, one's a woman, right? And I don't know what product talking about here, but your product could be used very differently for a man or a woman, right?
Maxwell Finn: 09:12 Like let's say you're selling a you know, a female product. Let's
say you're selling like a Dyson hairdryer, really expensive badass hairdryer, right? And you have men that have been in the car, right? Chances are that guy's probably buying as a gift for his wife, for his daughter, for somebody, right? So the retargeting ads should be focused. Maybe you should have a video of one of your women customers opening a present and getting it, and then the surprise and happiness on her face. That's a powerful ad for a guy thinking, Hey, what's the perfect gift to get my wife for Christmas? Whereas for the woman, it should be about, you know, the product, the benefits, the features, right? There are women that you can relate with. So something as simple as that could dramatically increase their conversion rates. And just by segmenting by gender, right? And then you have age, you have placement, you have location. There's so many other variables that you can filter by at each step. So it's funnel steps. And then it's also personalization with any, each funnel. Step.
James Schramko: 10:08 First thing I noticed when I started selling was how terrible salespeople were. It used to blow my mind actually. Like, I would come into the car dealership and I'd say, the sales person's standing there with a spreadsheet. And I'd say, what are you looking at? He goes, I'm looking at the stock sheet to see which cars have the biggest bonus. And then he'd explained to me the next person that came in is going to recommend them the car with the biggest bonus. And I'm thinking, shouldn't you be recommending the right car for them? Like regardless of the bonus, because don't you want them to buy from you again in the future? So I realized that most salespeople are very selfish and it's more about them paying for the mortgage that
month, then the customer in front of them. So I've always had a duty of care to the customer and I want them to be very happy with the purchase.
James Schramko: 11:03 I want them to make the right decision and I want them to be in
a position to refer me to buy again. So yes, my whole sales funnel is revolving around the customer and their challenge and their needs. And it's sort of a choose your own adventure, but I don't think I should show someone the right offer. Unless they're in the right prospect, there's no point offering them something that's not a good fit for them because it starts to take away from their ability to get value and it just doesn't feel right. And if you only show your right offer to the right prospect, yes, your conversions increase. But also your ability to get them results increases, your reputation increases. And so again, like when I stopped selling that I felt the market had moved on from, I get plenty of traffic to my website who will never see my sales page because they shouldn't see it yet.
James Schramko: 12:03 They're not ready for that solution. So do I make less money initially? Possibly. is it better? Longterm? I think absolutely. I can, I can sleep well at night knowing that I'm doing my very best to help people with the right solution and certainly worked out really well so far. Yeah. So I mean, at the end of the day, to catch everybody up, it's really like, what's your problem? Where's your budget, where are you in this journey? And then you're kind of self-diagnosing correct. Yeah. It's although budget might not be the right word, it's more like what size is your business? And the thing that is probably not obvious but is a rather counterintuitive and directly flies against what most experts teach is I'm not a big fan of the Ascension model. And that is where you start someone for free and then you give them a little product and then a slightly bigger product and then a more expensive recurring and then a massive product.
James Schramko: 13:06 I just think that is a such a flawed concept because I look at it
this way. Imagine you love drinking whiskey, like the finest whiskey from the greatest Glen in Scotland. If you go into a bar, you don't start off with the tap whiskey or the low shelf stuff and then work your way up to the good stuff on the top shelf. That whiskey drinkers saying, I'll have that. And they'll point to the top shelf and they'll start at the top. And the bulk of my clients coming to my horse level program will come straight to it using that selector. And that's what they want. They don't, they don't want to wait and they don't want to work their way through a couple of hundred podcasts first. They want help now they, they know it's the right solution and they're ready to go.
So I bring people in at the highest level if that's the right level for them. And you know, the Ascension model can go suck.
Joe Troyer: 14:09 I completely agree. It's like if I know James that I want to pay
you for one on one coaching or your highest level program, should I really have to start at a trip wire for seven or $10 or go listen to your sales webinar, you know, selling me $1,000 product if I want to pay you 30 grand a year.
James Schramko: 14:26 Yeah. I think some people get in the way of a sale with all this manipulation tactics.
Joe Troyer: 14:32 So that keeps your promotions, I'm guessing man James, like
very simple, right?
James Schramko: 14:38 Yeah. Well, I think, I think you know, again, if you look at what I
do and what I teach many others, I don't have affiliates and that makes life a lot easier. I'm not constantly looking for fraud spreadsheets or sending out payments back, a big chunk of my income, you know, I don't do launches so there's no hype or you know, getting all my mates to email their, their customers to death.
James Schramko: 15:05 Cause I don't think that's respectful of the client. That, that
model. I am just very consistent with my marketing of content and organically happy customers making referrals. So you can have a low pressure system that produces really well for the long haul. So I kind of feel like I'm attending a vineyard and I'm producing fine wine and it takes a while and it's organic. You know, like in food, people are going back to organic. In fact, went to buy a pair of shoes from my wife yesterday and yesterday was the first day I discovered that what they call fake leather shoes or like pretty much what we might've called vinyl in the days. I couldn't believe it, but the salesperson called them or she called them vegan. There's vegan shoes, which means synthetic, clever cracked me up. So we're going back to the old ways of organic. And I think you know, all of the tactics that people use to cajole and prod and manipulate and, and noise and disrupt people can backfire on them if there's nothing of substance underneath that. If you've got a really good product and you can be consistent with the way you share it, you can actually build up a lot of momentum. People keep coming to the seller to buy that wine. If you keep looking after the grapes and you don't put crazy insecticides all over them and stuff.
Rob Warner: 16:39 So the way we do retargeting is we've coined our own phrase
called Omni target setting, and that gives you a pretty good indication of our philosophy and that we will to be omnipresent
for our prospects. And to do that. The first facet of our approach is it's multichannel. We want you to be everywhere as a client. And that means in a place like Facebook, Instagram, Gmail, YouTube, Google, display, even LinkedIn or potentially Twitter and anywhere else we can get ads in front of our audience. Remember we're dealing with humans who consume content possibly in the same way you do, possibly slightly different. Everybody has that go to places where they act, interact online. We don't know what from where they are. So we need to be omnipresent for the winds to be everywhere. So the first thing is Omni channel. We then try and make ourselves Omni irrelevant.
Rob Warner: 17:28 And the way that we do that is we have good branded
messages. We want different mix of messages. We want to be telling them the kinds of things we just said. Here's what we've got. So we run, we're actually four types of ads. The offer ads, the here's what we've got. We run the branded ads, which are, here's what we stand for, we run the review ads and here's why you should trust us. And finally we were on seasonal ads, which allow you to stay in prospects minds in a way that's timely to them at the moment. So it could be 4th of July holiday, it could be Christmas, it could be new year's, but seasonal as that irrelevant. And the way that we do that then is what we call Omni rotation. We don't want prospects seeing the same ad a thousand times. It's highly expensive to run.
Rob Warner: 18:17 It's inefficient, it's boring and it's ineffective. So our creative
process means that front of typical client, we'll generate upwards of 150 ads that we're running at any one time. For them, that's a heck of a lot of ads. 150 ads get to us means that we can rotate frequently. It means that the same ad is only ever seen a few times and so it doesn't become annoying. The person doesn't become blind to it. And we also cap the frequency so they're not seeing too many ads on a daily basis by putting those things together. So we're omnichannel, we're rotating, we're relevant, we're on multiple different device types. We stay really well in front of our prospects minds in a way that's highly, highly efficient and it controls that narrative. And that for us is the key to it. Let me just explain why is I've got time to do that.
Rob Warner: 19:09 There's a really simple reason why nobody does this as a lot of
work as just just to generate 150 different ads, create all new audiences, synchronized ads across all the video and images and things. Very few people from the biggest brands are willing to take the time and effort to do that. Most people, when they send them running retargeting, they've got an ad. I go, I've got
an ad on Facebook or on Google, and that's it. And that's not the best way to do this. So we know that the Omni outcomes are compared to normal outcomes are significantly higher. And for all the reasons you just explained.
Joe Troyer: 19:45 So do you think that there's a place, and I'm curious, I've never
asked you this. Do you think that there's a place where retargeting doesn't fit?
Rob Warner: 19:52 Yes, too. To a degree. There are places where I could see it
being less valuable. So if we think about why it works, it works because 95% of people don't convert on the first visit. So we think what does convert on the first visit. Typically things like emergencies. You need an emergency plumber that implies that you probably are going on the water or you need somebody there. Now a three month retargeting campaign is unlikely to be successful. If you look at the conversion rates on those kinds of initiatives, emergency locksmiths, emergency plumbers, yet to degrade that gem are the ones where you're going to see a lower return. Our side of that, that I can't think of anything where it would be a definite on the locks.
Joe Troyer: 20:33 I would agree, right? Like windows should be a lot smaller on
the plumber though the emergency plumber, chances are if you're calling an emergency plumber, you're ending up with some water damage, which is going to lead to
Joe Troyer: 20:48 A ginormous bill to you or, or your insurance provider, which is
going to lead to probably some not so great feelings. So I would argue on plumbing actually in emergency plumbing specifically that the brand ads and review ads and testimonial ads the, I think it would be highly important for probably a 14 day, seven to 14 day window.
Rob Warner: 21:14 I think you've given me an idea because it's like, it's, it's like the
retention play. It's like it's the feel good play versus the blow back. What do you mean this is $15,000 right. So that's curious. That's very interesting. It's exactly that. It's exactly that and I think so, yeah, I agree with you in terms of there are sideways moves you can make on it. I think from the point of view of the emergency plumbing service itself, it's difficult. But if you think in a larger sense, you've got the right kind of customers.
Rob Warner: 21:48 Absolutely makes perfect sense all day long. But you could do all
the types of retargeting to other services and that's why many businesses don't think about this. They think about what's immediately in front of them. I mean we've, we've done it, we've used it even for let's say training companies to existing
customers to get them to show up for the training they're provided, to get them to consume the content they've already paid for, to retain that feeling of brand value that's massively valuable for people. And because it's your existing customers, it's ridiculously cheap. You can't assume that people are opening your email all of the time because there's a pretty good chance they're not. So if you want to stay in touch with them, retarget them. Yeah, for sure. Email open rates obviously are down not to be a Debbie downer, right? Like we need to be hitting people on as many platforms as possible.
Rob Warner: 22:37 Right? I can put out an email and get X amount of clicks and I
could put out a YouTube ad, for example, just on one platform and 10 X that number of clicks. Right. it cost me very little because I would be using an audience that I already have. Yeah. I exactly, it's my mind. That's one of those great things that if you think about it that way, if you send me, if you've got, let's say you want to communicate for me for even two to three minutes, that's going to be, let's call it 500 words. If you do a shoot of short, quick informal video, when retarget with me, I'm probably going to watch that when I get a break in something convenient. You send me a 500 word email, I'm probably not reading it know, so yeah, a 500 word email feels like hard work. A three minute video seems like fun, so
Daniel Hutt: 23:25 You don't need to be creating a high volume all the time. From
an SEO perspective, it can actually damage you if you've got a lot of content with no links, it'll pull down rankings of stuff that you have got and I know you guys do a lot of SEO and agencies and things, big problems.
Joe Troyer: 23:41 We have a lot of very similar pieces of content too, so you mix
the two
Joe Troyer: 23:45 And we got some nightmare scenarios for sure.
Daniel Hutt: 23:49 For example, we were ranking number three I think for our
target keyword. And the Yoast SEO plugin broke and it created a brand new index page for every image on our article. So we had like 900 pages overnight and we just dropped out there for search results, you know, because like we just had too much content on there. So it just goes to show like how it affects. I, I blame kind of media sites in that those guys are paid for eyeballs on adverts and so they churn out content because they want the same person back 10 times a day, you know? But if your business in reality, you need only so many conversations with someone to make a sale. So you don't need a huge volume
of content. You need strategic content, you need content that sells content that attracts them.
Daniel Hutt: 24:33 And you can create content for systems like for an article that,
you know, a lot of people are link builders are going to link to and stuff like this so that you raise rankings. So it's about being strategic in it and understanding that you don't have to churn out a lot straight away after that you, you realize that you can spend five times as long on an article and get it better because I always see it, this is what blew my mind. So like the direct response world, the paid ad world guys will run an advert to cold audiences to a sales page and make a sale at a profit. And so they just do that all day. And it works because of the psychology of the page and ad it pulls them down. It gets a conversion, but they don't create assets. Whereas like the content guys, they want to create assets and I don't want to sell or do ads.
Daniel Hutt: 25:25 I took the principles that we would do for a sales page and I put
it into content, the psychology of why it works and how to pull people in and things like this. So yeah, I make a lot of mistakes and I read a lot of smart people. So I looked at like Jonah Berger, he wrote a book about contagious, why things go viral. Yup. Things like that. Like why is a society, we share things and link to things and stuff. I read a lot of case studies by bus Sumo and those guys about content and actually does well for rankings and we tell them that it's like nine elements basically that if your content has this, it's going to do well. So you can't add content has authority. I if you're seen as an expert, a moment, likely it's going to be shared or linked to because they see it has value, which is another one.
Daniel Hutt: 26:14 Because of that you build reciprocity, I E. People want to pay it back. So I believe a share it with a friend or the link to it or buy from you so that you include these elements. But when you break it down, in reality, it just needs to be long form. It's not like a 300 word. You know, if you've ever worked in retail or in sales, it's insane that you think that you're talking to one person and you only give them three sentences and be like, yeah, I do SEO, we build links. It does this, you know, and that's it. You're not going to convert them out of enough information, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So in reality, you would have this detailed conversation with them. You would move them along and by the end of that, they would either have like a new belief or they'd be ready to possibly buy, right?
Daniel Hutt: 27:00 So that's what needs to go into your content a longer form,
step-by-step high value. It needs to connect emotionally as well.
So it's, it's not just, you can get away with just saying like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you actually understand the reasons behind why people do it, and you can connect with that. If you say like, you know we want to build links to get traffic because then it means you don't have to be at the office till 10 o'clock every night and you can spend time with your family. Something that really resonates, you know, so it's just taking those principles and applying it to your cart.
Shain Weisinger: 27:34 Yeah. You know, I'm re-purposing has really just started to
become something that people talk about a lot more. It was kind of a best kept secret secret for a hot second there. And it's a good thing for me, you know, with this business that people are understanding the value that they can get out of their existing content, which is really cool. But that is really the, the big one right now. A lot of people are talking about it. I'm starting to see more people do it, which is really cool. Like you'll see people actually format it, right? And you're like, yes, you put captions on your videos. But things like actually taking existing content, repurposing it and the IGT TV thing is really cool. Everything. Everybody was trying to figure out a way to put longer form content on Instagram because the problem is you have a great two minute clip you can put on Facebook and then you're like, well, now I gotta trim that down even further.
Shain Weisinger: 28:15 Or it's unusable on Instagram, right? So now being able to post
to IgE TV and just making sure it's formatted properly to be cropped into the feed if you choose to do that. Like that I think is a really cool change that I see being it's Instagram allowing you to get away with longer content, which is super cool. One of the last things I would say is selfie style content is actually super effective and it breaks my video production heart to say that. But like selfie style outperforms highly produced video over and over again and it's, it's upsetting and also just the way that it is. So, but it makes it a lot easier to make content. So that's a good thing. Right.
Joe Troyer: 28:53 I love it. My, my best ads my best videos are definitely off the
cuff selfie style. I have an idea, I grabbed my phone and I quite literally go like this and walk around the office and it does the best bar none. And, and even I've tested within without editing. Right? And so like, even like a little bit at the beginning of like me getting in frame or something and like, and I've left it and it's performed better than the one that does it. And people are commenting like, wow, this is so real.
Shain Weisinger: 29:20 I believe it. Yeah. Because people want to feel like I was just lazy
and didn't edit it. What do you mean? Well, that's real, right?
Yeah. People want to feel like they're seeing the behind the scenes, the actual person, not the production piece. You know, I think that, and what's so interesting about that is now I think a lot of people are taking to the next level where it's obviously planned and they're making, it's still like produced, but it's coming across like it's actual natural footage, which is interesting. It's the worldly women. So
Joe Troyer: 29:51 That's funny. Like I, I left in like me, like taking my finger like
this, they hit the stop button, like, like quite literally. And it worked. And it was, it was great. So yeah, I see that happening big time. And I think everybody still is in the mindset though that it's gotta be some like crazy produced video and I'm thankful that it's not because it makes my life easy. I, I don't do well with a big green screen and a whole formal shot. It takes me forever to do content and I just like, let's do it again. Let's do it again, let's do it again. It'll take all day for me to get out anything worthwhile. So I'm sure that's had a big impact on your business though, right? Like just the ease now.
Shain Weisinger: 30:27 Yeah. Oh absolutely. It's, it's funny because I think people get
into their own head about needing this highly produced content and something that I can just keep on reiterating to people is like, you just, it's so much easier. Like the devices we have right here are way more effective than the first cameras I was buying for my video production company. It's, she's in four K, what world are we living in? Where this is a thing that we can do and you can still make it look good with that. Like you can still figure out nice ways for it to be lit. Well like you don't want hard shadows under your eyes. You can figure out better ways to get your audio done. But like ultimately for $30 it can still look really clean but also like selfie style and you can just crank it out as on a whim.
Shain Weisinger: 31:06 But I try to, again, like the front loading thing is really important.
I'll just tell people like create a running doc on your phone or like a task list or whatever of topics that just pop up to you during the day and you're like, Oh, I really think that I should talk about this. Or I had a call with this guy about this one thing. I need to think to talk about that or that. Anybody even had questions about that. And if you have that running list, then you know that like when you have 30 minutes to shoot selfie style video, you got your phone on you, I'm sure go by a window and just start shooting them, you know? And you don't have to post them all in like consecutively. But at least you have it now is content that you can post when you're ready to
Joe Troyer: 31:39 100% completely agree. Yeah. I think for me, I always tell people like frequently asked questions should ask questions, right? Like I do a weekly webinar that I use for my content ideas too. It's like my content farm. So like I do a Q and a session in AMA every week and that's what I end up using to kind of repurpose. I'll either repurpose right from the webinar and it's me on camera like this or I'll do a, you know, we cut it and I'll reshoot it and that's my content ideas and it's an hour long every week and I automate all of my content through that one piece.
Shain Weisinger: 32:09 That's so smart. And that's, that's like one of the key ways on
repurposing, especially the fact that you're asking questions at the end. So you're answering questions that you know are being asked. So it's like that's obvious content right there. Awesome. Super cool. So
Todd Brown: 32:21 Number one, let me, let me just say this right, that like, look,
you know, too many people and this is one of those writer downers for your listeners. Man. You know, too many people, they try to make their product better. They think that the answer is make the product better. If I make the product better, more people will buy. The reality is that better is only known or determine once somebody buys, they don't know how good your product is until they buy. The reality is that the best use of your time is always spent in thinking through how can I better present my idea behind this marketing campaign, behind this message? How can I develop a better idea, a more compelling idea? I sit back and I think to myself, what could I say to the market that would get everybody's attention, that would make them say, Whoa, I need to hear more about that.
Todd Brown: 33:11 And that's what that's, I'm constantly thinking about that every
day because number one, the market evolves and shifts. New competitors come in, new messages are promoted, new things are out there. The market shifts, changes matures. And so the mindset, the perspective of the market evolves. And so I'm always asking myself today, what is it that I could say that would get the market's attention and how could I use that? How could I mold that and, and, and change it into a, a big idea, right. And then of course, like you said, the big idea is there to get attention, to stop them, cut through the noise, get their attention and get them to ultimately continue on in your, in your marketing. In your marketing message, the lead, the first 350 400 800 words is there to set the, the hook. Meaning it's, you use the big idea to get attention and then you set that emotional hook in the prospect in the first 350 to 800 words.
Todd Brown: 34:07 That's where we get them to say, this sounds awesome. Show
me like, prove it to me. Lay it out for me, man. It sounds amazing. It sounds incredible, but now show me like, get me to believe you. I'm that this is legit. That's where we then introduce the unique mechanism. And the way to think about this is really, really is extremely simple. So number one, behind every product or service, there is a mechanism. There is a way that the product delivers results. Whether you, if you're selling a fat burning supplement, there's something in that fat burning supplement. It's either an ingredient, it's a combination of ingredients. There's something in there that is responsible for why that fat burner will burn fat and help somebody lose weight. Take a, a software that gets top Google rankings. Let's just say for people, well there's something in that software, the way that it works to produce the, the, the, the, the top ranking.
Todd Brown: 35:04 So every product or service has a mechanism behind it. The
beauty of the unique mechanism is, is that, and let me say this, the unique mechanism, it's a marketing invention. It really is. There are lots of products that have a true unique mechanism. They have a unique algorithm behind their software. There, a massage therapist that does a unique combination of body work methods, right? And that's how they get people paying free, right? So some products have a legit unique mechanism built in, but there are, there are other ways to create engineer your own unique mechanism. Even if you don't immediately see that you've got a unique you know, one of a kind algorithms. So everybody can do this. But the beauty is that when you present a unique mechanism, when you basically say to a prospect, right, I've got a new and different way for you to experience the result you want, I have a new and different way for you to get top top rankings on Google.
Todd Brown: 36:02 I have a new and different way that nobody's ever told you
about for you to get pain free. I've got a new and unique way for you to for you to grow gigantic tomatoes in your backyard a way that nobody has ever told you about. Well, number one, right? Number one, you give prospects hope. They're, they get, they, you give them hope, hope because they look and they say, well, maybe this is the answer. Maybe this is the thing that I've been missing. Maybe all the times, all the things, all the software, all the other things that I bought, maybe they didn't work before because they were missing this one unique mechanism, this one unique element. And so you get them excited, right? You, you, you get them excited. See today, and this is important without going too crazy deep sea, the, the answer is no.
Todd Brown: 36:46 You're not going to promise your prospects something brand
new that they've never been promised before. Not in the majority of markets, not in the majority of niches. The majority of niches today, we already know what the prospect wants. There's somebody, if not many people out there that are early promising to give them that result. So how do we differentiate if we can't differentiate with the promise, we differentiate with the mechanism behind the promise. We promise that they're going to have the result that they want, but we show them how we're going to do it with something new and different. And when you basically, Joe, when you tell somebody that you've got a new and different way to give them the result, they get hopeful, excited. And now the beauty is that the rest of our marketing campaign is not trying to sell the product, the, the rest of the marketing campaign up until the offer, before we ever even talk about the product is us educating the prospect on how and why that unique mechanism works and how it works more efficiently, more effectively than anything else out there.
Todd Brown: 37:51 We're teaching them, we're enlightening them, we're giving
them insights about it. They're grateful, they're thankful, and by the end of the marketing portion of our campaign, they're like, dang, that. That sounds amazing. That unique mechanism. I get it. That's what I want. That sounds like the perfect solution, it sounds like. Right? We want, we're not selling, we want not at all where we talking about the product itself and let me, let me, let me make sure that everybody understands the unique mechanism and the product are not the same thing. The product contains the unique mechanism, right? But the product, you can have a product named, you know, named fat burner. Extraordinary. But the mechanism in there could be the SLC formula, right? And it's the SLC formula that does this, this, this, this and this. And the reason you want to use the VSLC formula is [inaudible].
Todd Brown: 38:39 And then once we lead somebody to accept the belief that that
SLC formula is the answer for their fat burning needs, then we're able to transition into the offer. And then we say, and that's why we took the last year with a team of doctors and nutritionists to put together this product called, you know, the fat burner. Extraordinary because it's built on the SLC formula. Boom. Done deal. You just now created, again, like I said, all roads lead to you because you introduced a new and different way for the prospect to get the result that they want. And then you educated them on that, right. Marketed to them without having it, without having to sell. And you created the, the demand before you rolled out the offer. It's beautiful.
Matt Diggity: 39:19 I don't think one is better. SIM, well, I'd be a hypocrite if I did. I'm doing both of them right now. So we have clients through my agency, the search initiative, quite quite a few clients. I'm also doing affiliate marketing completely through my agency lead spring. So I'm doing both. And I would, I would say a 50, 50 level. There's pros and cons to each, right? So in terms of client SEO, the awesome things are, it's low risk. You basically get all that money up front and it's great for newbies too. Not saying like only newbies to client SEO, but it's great for newbies in the sense that you get that money up front that can be used to pay for tools that can be used to pay for your education. You, you can learn with that money. You, you can experiment with that money and you get it up front.
Matt Diggity: 40:11 With affiliate SEO, you're putting that money into a niche idea.
You don't know if it's gonna work later. You're buying content and links up front and you're not even sure that it'll get past the sandbox, but you're doing the right things. You will. So in that sense, you know, like client SEO is a lot safer and the risk is mitigated. And the money's upfront. That said, I would say client SEO is hard to scale in the sense that you, you now need another skill that also isn't inherent to the typical SEO personality, which is very data driven. You needed the skill of sales. So you need to be able to sell yourself and communicate with clients. And that can be 42 sometimes up to 50 and 60% of the job is just communicating with clients and managing those projects. So it's not just you you do in your work, but you're, you're, you're, you're talking to people and you're making sure they're calm and stuff like that.
Matt Diggity: 41:14 Whereas with affiliate SEO, it's just you and the websites and
Google and you don't get held back by needing to talk to the clients. It's, if you have a bad month, it's between you and yourself. You can have that conversation one second and you're done. And I guess with in terms of mom station, like I would say that it's kind of different. I mean, you can definitely scale an agency to six figures a month. That's, that's definitely doable here. You're going to need a lot of staff to do that though. With an affiliate model, it's kind of like, it depends on how successful your niche is. Like you can find niches that, that can easily make you 50 to a hundred thousand dollars a month. But the model that I like to use is a flipping model where I'll get a site to max out, maybe that's at $5,000 a month, maybe $50,000 a month from then I'll flip it.
Matt Diggity: 42:03 Once I flip that side, I get all my time back, I get all my resources
back and then I have a big chunk of money that I can use for investing in a new sites and stuff like that. I'm all about
diversification, so I'll do both. But I would say in terms of my own personality, I like affiliate better, but that's just, that's just my personality that doesn't want to get on the phone and tell myself and, and that kind of stuff. And I know like I like co high competition, I like I've, I was a big, big X gamer, so there's some part of me that just wants to be on a leaderboard and the hardest or possible the biggest mistakes, like first and most obvious one, I simply didn't understand how blogging works in a sense like like a tool to help your business.
Tim Soulo: 42:50 So I didn't understand blogging in terms of business growth. I, I
understood the basic principles that everyone understands that you have to publish new articles, that you have to tweet them to your audience, that you have to go with popular topics that everyone is publishing on their blogs. So basically I was doing so-called monkey job. I was looking at other blogs in my industry and writing almost the same articles that they're writing and like tweeting them, trying to submit them to different communities like granted, et cetera. And they didn't work out. So I simply didn't understand like, what is blogging, what is the business objective? So whenever it was an in house marketer and for example, I was working on a CMS content management software, a tool that helps you build your website and we had a blog. Again, I didn't understand like what blog is for.
Tim Soulo: 43:44 Yeah, we could post some updates about this software, like
what's new in our software and send it to our customers and like to some of them it was interesting. Of course, not 100% then we could cover some, I don't know, industry news, like what's going on the in the website building industry, some, some new technologies or something, but it never got traction. I never figured out the simple, the simple idea that if you're blogging you might want to like, I know I'm not sure if you want me to go deep on this, but I'll, let me, let me just quickly share that. I think there are two approaches to blogging. A one approach is if you focus on SEO and it's actually not blogging anymore. This is what we're doing with the sheriffs blog. We're simply finding topics that people are searching for in Google and covering them on our blog.
TIm Soulo: 44:29 So basically it's not even a blog, it's a collection of resources
that are find-able online. So our only objective is to publish something that people relate. They're discovering Google, if there's no search potential for a certain topic, we wouldn't publish anything about it. So there's the first approach. The second approach is the storyline. This is what the, if you know guys from group HQ done a, they had an amazing blog which
had a footer that said something like from a hard to, Oh shit, we're sharing like everything on our road from like zero to a million annual recurring revenue, something like that. So that blog was different. So they didn't necessarily cover topics that people were searching for in Google, but they were sharing their own story, how their startup is growing. So everyone who was in the similar situation, everyone who is running their own startups, everyone who is doing, who is doing marketing, product marketing, product management, et cetera, et cetera, they were interested to follow their publication and to see what kind of other challenges they meet, how they sold them. So it was interesting. So yeah, there are two approaches to blogging and they didn't realize any of them back in the day. So we didn't focus, so focus on SEO and they didn't focus on storyline. And that's why my blogs weren't taking off. I simply didn't have any of the strategies.
Speaker 11: 46:07 [Inaudible] [inaudible].
