Steve Toth lives and breathes SEO. He’s considered by many as one of the top minds in the industry. As SEO Manager for FreshBooks, he was able to double organic traffic in one year. Steve now runs his own boutique agency but continues to work for FreshBooks as a consultant. He also created SEO Notebook, a rapidly growing email list where he shares a page out of his strategy notes weekly.
In this episode, Steve discusses his SEO journey and shares many of the strategies and tactics that have made him so successful. He also talks about his belief in the giving mindset and how this has helped him throughout his career.
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Joe Troyer 0:55
Welcome to another episode of Show Me The Nuggets. Today, we have a on true SEO expert named Steve Toth. So Steve, I've been watching on LinkedIn. And he's been putting out an amazing, amazing amount of great SEO content and not just lots of it, but but really good quality as well. So if you guys don't know, Steve, Steve worked for FreshBooks running SEO strategy and, and really, really crushed their traffic over there. And we'll get into that in a little bit. But he also runs SEO Notebook, which really is giving out just a ton of amazing content about SEO definitely suggest you guys check that out. And without further ado, Steve, welcome to the podcast.
Steve Toth 1:39
Thanks so much for having me, Joe.
Joe Troyer 1:40
Yeah, man, super excited to have you. So my team found that from 2019 to 2020, you guys at FreshBooks were able to double organic traffic. So that's a pretty impressive feat.
Steve Toth 1:54
Yeah, we luckily had the you know, the support of an executive team and a director in the acquisition department that believes in, you know what we were doing and gave us a lot of free rein to kind of go out and achieve those goals. So, yeah, we basically did it through a couple of different initiatives. One were some sort of mid to bottom funnel, landing pages on invoice templates, which have extremely high search volume. And then the other one was a blogging strategy, based on Google's people also asked questions that really accounted for the majority of the traffic increase.
Joe Troyer 2:36
I love that. How did you make sure that that traffic then converted, right? So obviously getting the traffic's great, right and going after invoice templates is makes a lot of sense for FreshBooks, right? Like very topical, very related. What did you do then to actually make the the conversion mechanism happen?
Steve Toth 2:53
Yeah, so well, we also bid on these keywords historically, but prior to This, like we hadn't been ranking for them, we've just been bidding on them for paid search. So we had, you know, a ton of valuable data in terms of, you know, refining that paid search page over the years, while it was the main driver. So we did little things like, like when instead of just saying, you know, create an invoice or create your, we said, like, create my invoice, we just made things like really nice and personal on the page. And just, you know, did our best to qualify the people who ended up you know, downloading, trying the software versus people who just wanted a template, we actually gave people what they wanted. So people would come back and search and eventually there started to be search volume for FreshBooks, invoice templates, too, so which was cool. And then yeah, just basically taking a lot of cues from paid search, really refining our title tags and meta descriptions pay based on the learnings there, you know, one of the things that we stressed in our title tag was that you could create an invoice instantly. Whereas a lot of other pages on the SERP didn't necessarily have that kind of instant kick instant gratification. So just really learning for paid search, I would say is the biggest thing.
Joe Troyer 4:19
And that's so refreshing to hear. I feel like these days every quote unquote SEO expert or SEO practitioner even, they're just so SEO focused that that they don't take any learnings from paid search anymore. Right. And it's like, it's two different people. It's two different worlds. It's two different thinkers almost these days. And so I love that that you took obviously what you guys have been doing and paid search forever and and applied that to your search.
Steve Toth 4:46
Yeah, it was. It was something we wanted to get right from the get go. And we also did some like a few CRO tests throughout the year, and like recently rolled out one pretty big change that resulted in a 13% increase in trials just by changing what was above the fold.
Joe Troyer 5:08
Wow. That's awesome. Fantastic, man. So thank you for some of this tactical stuff. Let's step back for a second. Help me understand and help the audience understand, Steve, what got you started in SEO and digital marketing?
Steve Toth 5:21
Yeah, so like, going back to like 2010 I was a copywriter at a web dev agency. And I was tasked with starting the blog. So really all of my SEO, kind of early learnings were based on blogging. So you know, I would really get a kick out of you know, writing a piece and using my instincts and honing my instincts and you know, seeing how they ranked then tweaking you know, the blogs and trying to make them rank better and just all the kind of, you know, little things like back then you could actually post a blog and it would go up on page one, like right away if it was well optimized, was cool to see too. But yeah, it all stemmed from blogging. And then I got a job in an internet marketing agency actually in in social media, and really quickly realized that it was SEO that I loved. I just sat beside the SEO manager. And then after he left, I sat beside the next SEO manager, and then just, you know, really, like got me sort of really deep into blogging. I was blogging about SEO while I was doing social media at that agency. So I've been been in it for a long time.
Joe Troyer 6:37
Gotcha, man. So that's how you stumbled in, how'd you end up working at FreshBooks?
Steve Toth 6:43
Yeah, so the story goes, that I was working at an agency. Sorry, my dog was just coming in. I was working at an agency and it just wasn't a good fit like the boss and I like literally had just straight up disagreements on SEO strategy, and I was hired as the director there and it just wasn't, it wasn't a good fit, as I mentioned. And he actually ended up laying me off. And, and, you know, I was like, I was like kind of planning like 100% honest not just saying this, I was planning to leave there and like four months later once I hit a year, and so I was out of a job. And then a buddy of mine was actually in the running at FreshBooks for the for the SEO manager position there. And, and I was like, Damn, I'm not going to go compete with my friend, and like, potentially take his chances at this job. So I didn't apply even though it was like 10 minutes away from my house, like amazing 300 person company, just so much potential. And then I just kind of waited and followed up with him. And when he was like, you know what I didn't get it was like dude can apply, like, so I applied. And he actually, like coached me through a lot of those interviews. He's like, okay, so you'll be talking to this person. And this is how they're like and like this is he had kind of an inside track on the whole interview process there. And then and then yeah, it's like four or five rounds at FreshBooks, and then they ended up giving me the job. So it was kind of a cool little turn of events. It was actually really quick like it was I got the job within a month after being laid off.
Joe Troyer 8:32
Okay, cool. Yeah, that's an awesome story, man. One you'll never forget.
Steve Toth 8:36
Yeah, it was it was cool. It was definitely like quite a roller coaster. But I was. I couldn't have asked for better timing in terms of that.
Joe Troyer 8:46
That's awesome. Yeah, fantastic timing. Everything happens for a reason for sure. Now, you got a great case study with FreshBooks, right and what you're able to do, right, like a major, major leap forward, I would assume in your career as well.
Steve Toth 9:00
Yeah, like it was right around the time that we started seeing success at FreshBooks, like just kind of blowing it out of the water with invoice templates that I had the idea for SEO notebook where, basically for any listeners that haven't subscribed, it's like every week I email like one page of my strategy notes. So prior to that I'd been you know, just reading so voraciously testing so voraciously and and just noting things down in very random places not having things organized. And, and I was like, Oh, wait a minute, like actually did a post on SEO signals lab. And I was like, What do you guys do for you know, like cataloging all your information and stuff. So people responded, and I was like, Well, you know what, maybe I'll just try Evernote and see how that goes. And then, like, literally the next day, I was like, you know, it'd be cool if I just like, email that one page of these notes like every week and then quicly just bought the domain. And, and yeah, and as we began to have that success at FreshBooks kind of gave me a bit of confidence to to go and launch that thing not knowing if anyone would subscribe.
Joe Troyer 10:16
That's awesome. So it's been running about a year, right?
Steve Toth 10:19
Yeah, a little under a year.
Joe Troyer 10:21
Okay, and how many subscribers you got?
Steve Toth 10:25
I think it's, uh, around 3300 3400 so far.
Joe Troyer 10:30
That's awesome, man. That's, that's a big feat, right? Like completely creating something brand new, kind of in an industry or space and jumping out on the ledge and making that happen. That's fantastic. what's what's worked well for you in terms of building that list? For listeners? Like what's maybe the 80/20 What's the thing or two that's worked the best?
Steve Toth 10:51
Yeah, well, I mean, I would, I would say it's not just like I built the list and then kind of worked hard. I was I was working hard in the community before I built the list like I would say for a couple years in the Facebook groups just you know constantly providing value and trying to help people is the main thing. And you know once once I kind of built a reputation and in a couple of those groups actually made a moderator and some of them you know, the people had already kind of known me or heard heard of me and thought that I had a decent reputation there so when I launched it, I decided to launch it with like 100 subscribers pre launch and and then once I did, I kind of got the support of you know, some people who I asked for their support and some people who I didn't and within a within like, I would say like two to three months I already had 1000 subscribers so I was like super surprised, really, with with how well it took off in the very early going and and yeah like it is just about, you know, having a genuine approach of like just helping first, first and foremost. And for me, it's, you know, I know that there are a lot of people SEO who had this kind of like protectionist mindset, feeling well, if I give away you know, this strategy, then I'm going to rank lower in the SERPs because my competitor is going to use it and all this stuff. I don't really I don't really take that approach. I think the web is just a gigantic place. There's lots of SEO for everybody. And, and, you know, I don't I don't worry about that. Like, I know that. The more I sort of give, the more you get, and it's just it all come back. So it's really not a concern for me. And, you know, like, out of all the people who get my emails, I have really good open rates like from 40 to 45%. even up to like 49 percent on some on some notes. And you know, and then a smaller fraction of those people are clicking like 15 20%. There's not like that many people who actually get the nuggets, you know, and for the people that do that people that actually click through and read the notes like, I'm glad, you know, I'm glad I'm glad they're getting value out of it. And I'm not Yeah, I'm not too I'm not super worried about that kind of thing.
Joe Troyer 13:24
I love a couple things that you said there that I want to highlight. So first, you you weren't an overnight success, right? Like you've been putting it obviously work for years. I think everybody comes in, they start doing something and from what I see everybody gives up way too damn early. And you know, you've been putting in work for years, like you said, you know, helping communities and moderating communities and helping people and just giving first, which kind of rolls into the second thing, which is I'm always of the mindset that you got to give more than you take, right? Like there's always going to be in any relationship. There's gonna be someone that gives more than the other one. And I'm always the one volunteering to be there. Because I know you, you give or you get what you give, right? But I don't leave like thinking that way. I just know that right? Like, if I put in my time? And if I truly help people, then I'm going to get it down the line at some point.
Steve Toth 14:18
Yeah, for sure. Working, doing things without, like necessarily expecting to get something for what you do is also really important, I think. You can't, you got to approach it like you're a farmer planting seeds. And that's all going to come back to you.
Joe Troyer 14:38
100% definitely agree. Awesome, man. So let's, let's highlight some some of your findings in the SEO Notebook. Let's get people about excited about going and signing up for this. Can you give us a couple of highlights? Can we pull a couple of notes so to speak and talk about some of the takeaways?
Steve Toth 14:58
Yeah, yeah, sure. While there's just a couple that I've done recently that have gotten me kind of excited, there's actually one that hasn't been published at the time of this podcast, but I'm assuming you're not going to get this up within three days. So maybe, you know, you can, but let's use it as a sneak peek. So, basically, you know, I'm always like, either coming up with A like my own strategies, or B like noticing things that people say, on online and one of the things that somebody said this week was just like, so like genius to me. And it's just like a really simple like, outreach approach. And what he did basically was looking at like all the nofollow links that that he has, and he simply just reached out and said, Hey, do you think you can make that a dofollow link and, and, and just like the simplicity of something like that I thought was really really clever and and potentially could have a huge impact on on, on, you know, some links from otherwise very powerful sites that were nofollowing you. There's other things like like schema markup, the previous note to that was about like sticking a link in the answer of your schema and also potentially using emojis in in your question to kind of draw clicks there's all kinds of just like hacky stuff like that just like you know really quick and dirty kind of tips like I don't I don't want to give my users like or my subscribers an email where they've got to like spend like you know, if you if you tallied up, all the links that you've linked to the roundups that this that that like, they're like literally needing to spend like 45 minutes consuming this email. I want people to sign up, like, read the tip and like go tell their friends because it's cool. I don't want I like just like, go go overboard with the amount of information that I give.
Joe Troyer 17:05
I love that too, because there's so there's, there's so much of that already out there, right? So it's quick, actionable, concise stuff, right that you can grasp. And that's really cool and easy to digest. So I definitely love that angle.
Steve Toth 17:20
Like let's say like you have a email, nothing against like something like The Moz Top 10 or any roundup email that goes out there great. But like what I want to do is find the best tip in those top 10 articles and just focus on that.
Joe Troyer 17:36
Yep. Yeah, for sure. That makes perfect sense. So, um, what are the biggest? What are the biggest mistakes you think people are making these days when it comes to SEO? Right. What are the what are the big things that you think people are talking about that in your experience is just not right? Or the big mistakes that most SEOs are making
Steve Toth 18:00
that's a that's a tough one because there's a lotI would say like, you know, listening to other people talk online, without really like, you know, having it makes sense for you, you know, just like trusting people's word. And I mean, I realize I'm just one of those people to. The stuff that I give is a bit more tactical, but like, you know, and there are people in the industry who have great reputations, I mean you look at a guy like Glen Allsop, or you know, Matt Diggity, or Kyle Roof. Those guys like, you know, people you can trust, right? Like they've, they've proven that they, you know, do amazing work. So as far as like, you know, people like that, like, I do trust but a lot of the stuff I see on Facebook groups, it's just, you know, some guy with an opinion. And, you know, don't necessarily take everybody at face value. Value cuz you don't even know if that person's being honest.
Joe Troyer 19:03
Yeah, 100% definitely agree. It's hard. It's like you got you got to pass them through some type of BS meter in your brain. Like, is this even possible? Does this make sense at all? And never take anything as as the gospel until you've tried it or you've played with it? Or you've tested it? For sure.
Steve Toth 19:22
I think there are a lot of like products on marketplaces and things that people offer packages for this for that. And they sound kind of neat. They sound kind of plausible, but you got to make sure that like, logically like in the real world, like this makes sense. I don't want to get into any like very specific, because I don't want to bash anybody's products or anything like that. But you got to just ask yourself, like, is this potentially like a real world signal and why would Google care about this? you know
Joe Troyer 19:56
Yeah, yeah. Um, when it comes to tools, what are your top two your top three tools like must have one of the things you turn to, you know, day in, day out week in week out.
Steve Toth 20:05
Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna be probably an Ahrefs user for life. I just love that tool. There's like, for me, I just look at that tool. I just say like, this tool makes me money. I just I love I love everything about it. Like I'm just so fast because I know where everything is. I've tried using SEMrush and just like didn't didn't get it, it immediately didn't like the interface. So I gotta say like, Ahrefs is probably the biggest one for me. And then the other thing that I just really love is Keywords Everywhere. Like even since it went paid, like, I don't care. I'm gonna pay like 15 bucks for 100,000 credits and have that last me a couple months like, that's no big deal at all. I think it's totally worth it. The team there does a good job at like keeping their data fresh, like their search volumes fresh. And I just yeah, I use it all the time like I use it for, like bulk checking, like large lists of keywords. Yeah, I think it's a great tool. And then I guess just like on technical stuff like Screaming Frog just to grab a quick list of URLs and all their information and internal links and stuff like that. I find it like pretty simple to use. And yeah, I'm not too like and then also just like when I'm doing keyword research, I would say like Google is one of the main things and then the last one I don't want to leave out because it is an absolutely incredible free tool is a tool by a guy named Pablo Rosales, for it's called SEO ruler, and it allows you to do like really cool stuff like scraping the SERP for people also ask questions, going to a page and like copying all the headings, copying all the external links internal links from pages. It's Chrome extension and like I, I donate to his Patreon because it's so good. It's it's an incredible tool and it's totally free. And I suggest you donate to it to
Joe Troyer 22:13
Awesome man, we will definitely check that out. I'm pretty sure I've heard of SEO Ruler before. And obviously Ahrefs I'm a subscriber of, Keywords Everywhere I've used. I don't have any current paid credit since it went paid. And I use Screaming Frog. So definitely a lot of the same tech stack. I'm curious when you say that you use Google for keyword research. What do you mean by that statement?
Steve Toth 22:38
Yeah. So I think that it's going to give you the best tool in terms of like the variations that people are searching they're like closely related to your keyword. So also one of the recent notes I did was just I called it I kind of dubbed it and gave it a name I call it keyword stretching. And what you do is if you have like, you know several words as your keyword together, you put an asterix in beside, like in between two of the words. And then Google will fill that in and tell you what, what words go in between those words as well. So it's not just like the auto suggests which are great, but it's like almost like auto suggests, like internally within the query. So that can really help you like, for example, like some, some SERPs are just, you know, like so cluttered and they have so many features. And that like, big high volume term that, you know, you think you you gotta go after to get the traffic. You look at that SERP and there's like, people also ask, there's these weird featured snippets that now have now have accordions integrated into them. They've got so many ads, they've got this that like even if you're ranking number one is ridiculously low. So taking that keyword and throwing an asterix, somewhere in between it potentially gives you something that's even more targeted. The intent is even stronger with it and it's lower volume. But guess what that SERP is also going to yield a lot higher CTR and a lot of cases.
Joe Troyer 24:16
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I know. So many SEO is I feel like are obsessed about ranking for these big head terms. But at the end of the day, there, they get no click throughs from you brought up a great point. You know, they strive for these keywords thinking that it's gonna, like change their business, and it's gonna drive so much revenue. And when they finally get there, if they finally get there, they're only very disappointed.
Steve Toth 24:42
Yeah, and you got to realize that in those SERPs too, you also have everybody else thinking the same thing so your competition is way more. So you know, go a little bit more longtail by either getting that autocomplete at the end or doing something like keyword stretching in the middle and You've got less competition because you don't have as many people thinking in that direction and competing for that keyword.
Joe Troyer 25:07
That's awesome. When you look at strategies at FreshBooks and what you've been able to accomplish at FreshBooks, I'm curious, like thinking back, like what do you think has been the 80/20 of building links like either from the most powerful links, the best quality links the the most volume of links, like just what stands out? Like what's what's your, you know, top one or two strategies?
Steve Toth 25:32
I would say that I'm trying to get links from pages that are like, focused on the topic that you're focused on. So if that's, you know, a link to an invoice templates page like that, that article that you're like, you know, trying to, that you'd love to get a link from is also talking about invoicing and invoice templates particularly, and that it's not just like some article about, you know, I mean, nothing wrong with it, but like, not maybe just not as powerful. It's an article about, you know, starting a business and then like account invoicing is just like one thing in many aspects of that article that talks about. So yeah, I try to get those those links from from pages that are like highly focused.
Joe Troyer 26:27
So very, very topically related or very, very focused. What what's what what would your pitch or your outreach method or your message be right to somebody that has a page about invoice templates, like how have you guys been able to make a pitch that's appealing? Right, that gets you guys that beloved link, but also is you know, a value add or maybe it just isn't a value add? That's, you know, you just asked enough people that it's, you know, happened enough times what's what's kind of been your strategy in terms of getting that link then
Steve Toth 27:00
Yeah, I'll give you an example. Not specifically for that, but also just like, we approached link building. So we get a lot of links, like we, you know, one of the things I think, I've been thinking about recently is like, you know, what are real world signals that show Google that you're an authority? It's probably you know, all those blogs that talk about best tools for entrepreneurs, best tools for small businesses, and like, you know, things like FreshBooks, QuickBooks Zero or like, obviously, like mentioned a lot on those types of blog, right? Like, those are like really strong signals that you've got all these sort of entities laddering up to one topic. And so we identified I can't remember but it was something like 2000 blogs that mentioned FreshBooks in this fashion. So we actually just like reached out to them again and said like, Hey, thanks for so much for for mentioning us here, we've also got this free tool around invoice templates that we think like, you know, if somebody's not ready to, to subscribe to the software that this might be useful to them to, you know, would you mind mentioning that?
Joe Troyer 28:14
That's beautiful Yeah, very simple. They've already linked to you. They think the world of you obviously, they wouldn't have done it naturally. And so that makes a lot of sense. Do you see that most of them would do that in a new post just inserted into the existing post?
Steve Toth 28:30
Yeah, I think the beautiful thing about it was we were able to target posts that literally had like 50 referring domains just into that one post because they were so old. So we got these really super high. You know, URL rating, PA whatever you want to call it. Pages, link, so yeah
Joe Troyer 28:52
Yeah. That's awesome, man. Beautiful, great stuff. All right. So we'll make sure to link up to Seo Notebook in the show notes, we're going to wrap it up here, I'm going to ask you one or two more questions. And in this SEO space or in digital marketing in general, you could say that it's very fast paced, whether there's really that many changes fundamentally are not is another topic, but let's just say that digital marketing is fast paced. What do you do to stay on the bleeding edge, so to speak, like what's your process? What are the steps you take? Who do you listen to? Like, what's what's your thought process on how Steve stays on the bleeding edge?
Steve Toth 29:36
I'll give you probably a bit of a different answer, one that you may not be expecting. Like, and going back, you know, before I think I really truly, this is like, you know, before when I was working at the agency, like I didn't think like I was as advanced as I as I became like, Well, you know, having this incredible learning experience at FreshBooks and you know, getting to get into really compete in some tough SERPs. I don't read blogs like hardly ever. Like if somebody sends me a blog or they says, Hey Steve, check out this blog, I'll read it. But I don't I don't pay attention to any SEO blogs at all. For me, it's actually just about maintaining, like real relationships with people and asking them and sharing knowledge with them and like relying on my network to feed me the interesting information and not just like, you know, Search Engine Journal or Search Engine Land, by default, so it's really for me, it's about I'm caught like my Facebook Messenger is like a constant like revolving carousel of people that I'm talking to that that I'm sharing with, and they're sharing with me. And, and that's really where mostly it stems from.
Joe Troyer 30:51
I love that awesome man. And for anybody, let's say somebody stumbles across this and they're brand new in terms of their SEO journey. There's super interested in it, that they're going to make a time commitment and investment to to really start learning and implementing what advice would you give somebody on what path to take what tools to look at? Just an any advice that you would give somebody that's new to SEO?
Steve Toth 31:17
Yeah, I mean, like if you live you know, in I mean, it doesn't actually matter where you live now, I guess. But for me, I learned on the job like I learned working for another company. And I thought that was incredibly valuable experience because you can ask questions like, you know, very easily to other people, you can get clarification and if you I think most SEOs love like people who are doing it like really love it, at least the people who are really good at it, love it. I don't think you can be a great SEO if you're not like somewhat obsessed with SEO and and so actually working like getting a job like at an agency, and you know, if you're halfway across the world, you know, there's plenty of agencies that are hiring, you know, people overseas and just having that experience and getting to have access to like their processes. Obviously, not every agency is equal, but you'll still get to work on like actual accounts, you'll get to learn about, you know, all the different types of businesses that that agency has under its belt. I feel like that's the best way to learn, versus kind of, you know, alone in your bedroom, like taking courses and stuff like that. There's obviously some great courses out there. But you don't you don't get that like real world application you would as if you were working at an agency. So yeah, I would probably probably recommend that just because that's what's been successful for me.
Joe Troyer 32:52
Yeah. And that makes perfect sense. Awesome, man. Last question. All right. So instead of asking you to recommend three books, We do something a little different here. I want to ask you like, what's the one book that's made the biggest impact on the way that that you do business, right, the way that you live your life the way that you look at your business?
Steve Toth 33:15
That's an easy one for me. It's a book called The Go Giver. And it's basically you know, a lot of the stuff I already talked about, you know, just basically adopt this giving mindset and the things you know, come back to you. There's a just like five laws in the book. It's just a story about a guy who's like trying to make his quota and like some people that he meets along the way that teach him these like five lessons and, you know, the couple the two lessons I really liked out of it, were just the very first lies offer more in value than what you take in payment, like always, and that doesn't mean like underselling yourself. That means realizing that when you do that, You know, people want to work with you more people want to recommend you and all that kind of stuff. And then like, the other thing is like, so in terms of like, what you give, and what you're able to give, the most successful people are the ones that are able to scale the amount like they give. And so for me, you know, that's, you know, posting on LinkedIn and reaching, you know, you know, up to like, you know, five digits of thousands of people, or through my email list, you know, just hitting a lot of people with with some value. So if you're able to, you know, start by giving on a small scale, like whether that's, you know, a comment in a Facebook group that really helps somebody, or, you know, able to, like scale it like myself or people who are even, you know, much larger than me. That's when you start to basically create this network of people who have you top of mind and are ready to recommend you at any turn. So for me, it's never about like sales and like directly approaching people and giving like an elevator pitch. It's always about, you know, planting the seeds. And then inevitably, people just contact me and say, you know, hey, loved your posts on LinkedIn, or like hey, so and so recommended you. Or, you know, I subscribe to your newsletter and really enjoy your content, I've got this project, that stuff is really starting to almost overwhelm me right now. And I'm just like really careful about what projects I take on and you know, doing that it's given me the luxury of like, only working with clients who I think are gonna have a really high probability of success, and also higher value clients.
Joe Troyer 35:50
Man, I love that I jive with that so much. And I think we think similarly about the value that we give and showing up without expectation, but I actually haven't really read Go Giver. And that first law is like me fundamentally like in everything that I do I think about that so much. So thank you so much for the book recommendation, and I know that so many of my people you know, let me know personally that that's a big deal to them too. So I think it's going to be a book that gets read a lot. So thanks for that recommendation, man. And thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.
Steve Toth 36:22
Yeah, man, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it.
Joe Troyer 36:25
And so we'll link up to obviously FreshBooks in the in the show notes as if they need one more link and then a link up to your SEO That Ranks as well as SEO Notebook. So thanks so much, man for coming on. really appreciate it.
Steve Toth 36:41
Only thing about SEO That Ranks is my my boutique agency is I don't have a website. But SEO notebook.com Feel free to link to that.
Joe Troyer 36:53
Alright, bud and I'll link you up on LinkedIn as well as that seems like you're the most active right?
Steve Toth 36:58
Yeah, yeah, I think That's probably my best channel
Joe Troyer 37:03
Alright, so FreshBooks, SEO Notebook, we'll skip over SEO That Ranks and then we'll link up to you on LinkedIn as well. So thanks so much, Steve for coming with a giving hand and giving a bunch of value and guys go sign up, we'll put a link down below for SEO Notebook.com. We'll see you guys on the other side.
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