Joe: 00:00:01 This conference will now be recorded. Hey guys, Joe Troyer here
from digital triggers and show me the nuggets and I'm excited to be joined today by none other than David Schloss. Hey David, what's going on brother?
David: 00:00:15 Doing great man. Glad to be here.
Joe: 00:00:17 So I was trying to think right before we kick this off while we're
getting started. How long we've known each other.
David: 00:00:24 Somewhere between six and seven years. I'd say most likely.
Joe: 00:00:27 It's actually more than that cause my, you know, my son Silas is
seven now that I'm in, had the been at least two if not three years, before he was born,
David: 00:00:37 You're right cause your son wasn't born so yeah.
Joe: 00:00:44 Going on a decade. So let's see. When, when we first met, your
previous company was called Rampify you guys were doing, were doing a lot of SEO stuff. You came on some of my webinars, did some trainings on SEO and video SEO.
Joe: 00:00:58 And ultimately I think pretty early on I would say in your career,
ended up making the shift towards Facebook.
David: 00:01:05 Yeah, I mean, I was already doing Facebook when I still had that
company. It just wasn't ,like the primary thing that we were selling mainly just cause no one really knew what Facebook ads were back then and they were not nearly as powerful as they are now. And so I would make it almost like not even the secondary, it was the third thing we would even talk about with people and yeah. And then over time it just became like, all right, more and more people are asking me about this, so maybe I should make it the number one thing. And so yeah, that's what I'm known for now.
Joe: 00:01:34 That's awesome. So your company now is Convert ROI. You want to talk a little bit about what you guys do over there?
David: 00:01:40 Yeah, so we transitioned the business from Rampify to Convert
roughly about six, seven years ago. And it was just because we went from a partnership to just me. And basically what we focus on is Facebook and Instagram advertising with a hint of YouTube now where we basically are helping people grow and expand their businesses through the ad platforms. And we work with webinars and coaching programs and lead gen, you name
it, supplement and other ecom businesses. A lot of supplements. That's why I mentioned that first. But essentially we focus all on Facebook and Instagram and a, I mean, I've gone all in with it for years and you know, this, when I went all in, I mean I went all the way in and we spend about 3 million a month right now.
Joe: 00:02:26 Wow. Yeah, that's crazy. So how many clients is that 3 million a
month spread throughout if you had to guess?
David: 00:02:33 35.
Joe: 00:02:34 So that's crazy. So we spend like the same amount of money,
right. But with Google ads at invisible. Right. but we, we do that across hundreds of clients, which was the crazy difference. Yeah, so very interesting perspective. Right. just, just the change there. So awesome, man. So these days, is there an ideal type of client that you take on or who's who's your yes. Who's your, no, when you're, when you're out there prospecting are you get an introduction. I know your referral game is really good, right? You get a lot of referrals these days. Who do you say yes to? Who do you say no to? Like who, who's a potential client?
David: 00:03:12 Yeah. So we, we do it in phases and so my team and I, what we
do is we first looked at the medium. So is it a webinar offer? Is it an application offer? Is it lead gen? Like we just look at the structure, right? Isn't e-com store. And because we work with all these different structures, what we'll typically go is, okay, which one are we had the most success with this year? So for example, if you came to us with a high ticket funnel, meaning you're probably getting people on the phone. That's been our number one this year. So if you come to us with that, we'll even, we'll look at your offer even if it's brand new, right? Just because it's like we've been absolutely killing it this year with that model. Whereas two, three years ago, if you came to me with a webinar, I would've been like, Oh my God, let's talk.
David: 00:03:53 Whereas if you came to me with a high ticket offer three years
ago, I would've said, you know what, hold on, I need to dig through everything in the funnel, right? So you can see based on where things are at, and I'm saying it for the year, I mean next year it could be all e-com or it could be all something else. But we look at the medium first and then assess from there. A niche wise, we do great in the real estate space. I'll just call it the how to market, right? How to build a business, how to start a store, how to blank, whatever that is. And then we'll have some, some weird ones pop up out of nowhere, like helping fitness people get more fitness clients or helping a fitness
business coach, get more fitness, you know, trainers and whatnot as part of their clientele.
David: 00:04:32 And you know, every now and again we'll get someone who teaches people how to grow their insurance business or you know, let's just say for example, one of my weirdest clients right now is a guy who basically teaches people how to build like a strong seven figure home service business. And I'm like, how the hell do I even target that on Facebook? But you know, we figured it out and it took a while, but it's one of those things that Hey, it's a how to thing, just got to figure out the right language and you know, we can help you out. So we look at the, the, the medium at which we're gonna present the info and then we'll dig into the niche a little more. [inaudible]
Joe: 00:05:08 Yeah, interesting. Cool stuff. So I definitely want to jump into
the high ticket funnel stuff first and really go about how you construct a high ticket funnel that's going to work when you take it to paid traffic. But before we do that, I want to talk a little bit about the agency side of the business and that you are running a seven figure agency for all of our agency owners here listening on the line. So one, when you look at your agency and Facebook agencies in general, what do you think are the kind of common problems that everybody is dealing with and facing on a day to day basis?
David: 00:05:41 Yeah, so there's a lot of Facebook agencies, so to speak these
days. You know, when I first started it was just a social ads agency that happens to do Facebook. Now I get classified as a Facebook agency just because I run Facebook ads. And so what I find is a lot of the newbies in the space, they're just leading with the, the old school internet marketer, you know, money signs, right? I'm going to help you make $10,000 $20,000 and you're going to get plenty of clients doing that. But those guarantees can only take you so far. And that's another thing. I can't guarantee you make that money unless the funnel and the business is operating at a way where it's like I can close these sales efficiently, your team can fulfill. We get testimonials and social proof and thus that, you know, the chain effect happens where it's like we could bring in more people that way.
David: 00:06:30 A lot of agencies these days don't even consider that. It's just
closed the sale, get the work done. Some never even get the work done and it's rinse and repeat. So it's a lot of churn and burn and it puts a bad light on my business because I get classified with these people and then I have to do something different than what they had done for this person previously. So I, I get a lot of clients that are previously burned. And so what
we do when we position ourselves in front of these potential clients, isn't, is just we lead with results, right? So we put out the case studies and we break them down in depth, right? What was done, how was it done? Why do we do it this way? What mistakes did we make? And here was the result from it. But while we're putting out these case studies, you know, you talk about my referral game is like, it's really on point.
David: 00:07:18 It's because I'm trying to educate people before they even work with me as to why they need to be looking out for certain things when hiring an agency. Right? So how am I communicating or educating you prior to the process beginning? Am I giving you feedback on your offer? Am I giving you any sort of critiques around the copy used in your email or in the actual program itself that you're delivering to people? I don't feel most agencies do that. They don't really dig into your stuff. They just go, Hey, it's five K you pay it and they just promote whatever you got without ever looking at your material. And I know you've been through this, there are some people's courses or coaching programs where they're actually not even ready for market consumption. They have to be refined and tweaked a little more before someone buys it.
David: 00:08:04 And yet these ad agencies are coming out, they're saying, Oh
yeah, no problem. We'll, we will, we'll get you 10 X your return and they're making these false promises and it makes everyone look bad cause they don't deliver. And so we're taking the opposite approach. I'll break down all your stuff, I'll educate you. I'll tell you, no, I can't help you, right? Just, I'm not going to take everybody. And I think that's more of a refreshing approach. Even though it's common sense to us, to the market. It's not because the narrative changed in the last couple of years. So the,
Joe: 00:08:33 The sophistication level, so to speak of the, of the industry has
changed, right? Like we have people jumping in all the time. You know, we, we constantly, I mean, nine out of 10 customers feel like they've been ripped off by some type of marketing agency in the past. So because of that, like we have to do business differently. And I think if you're trying to play the same game that you were seven, eight, 10 years ago when we first met, it's not gonna
Joe: 00:08:56 Work very well and you're going to be spinning your wheels as
an agency. So I recommend that everybody becomes an expert in something, right? Like, you went really, really deep with Facebook and then even based upon the year and what's really working for you and your business, you know, you're, you're
specializing on eCommerce, on high ticket or these different places because you know that you can get great results. So that's fantastic. And I definitely recommend that everybody, you know, pick a niche and go deep in that niche and become the expert. Because at that point, like you can do things that don't scale well. You can blow up Facebook ads, you can do what you do and you can give away a bunch of stuff for free because you know that like, you're, you're going to get your money back and longterm. So I want to transition a little bit and talk about the, about I high ticket funnel.
Joe: 00:09:44 At the end of the day, every agency I think should be niched
down enough where they should be running ads for themselves. Right? And when you really talk to an agency about why they aren't doing it, it's because they don't have an offer. It's because they don't have a niche, right? Like they haven't put the blinders on and they're not focused enough. So like one of the first things that I do when I start working with an agency is I get them to stay in their lane. Like, just pick a niche, right? Then just pick a sub segment of that market that you want to help. Right? And I, and I get them to just say yes or no to a couple of things really quickly. Right? And they're like further ahead than they've been in five years. Right? Well, by just making a couple, yes, no decisions. So I'd love to really focus on today with you and the time that we have building out a high ticket funnel. Like what's, what's important, what's not, what's overlooked, what's the 80, 20 so that they can build out a funnel that gets them qualified leads
David: 00:10:36 For sure. So I'll say this before we dig right into that. When it
comes to the high ticket funnel framework so to speak. What I'm finding these days is that a lot of people will think about all the content they need to build for their high ticket offer without ever asking their market what their problems are. So for example my most recent success story the guy came into me where he's a, he's a fitness former fitness business owner, decided he wanted to help other fitness business owners. We've heard this market before, blown up in the last couple of years, but he had a unique process to where they, he wasn't sending people through a traditional funnel. He was doing everything through messenger and DMS. Okay, interesting. Cool. A lot of communication, the average funnel in that space has been opt in VSL application, phone call his, his ad bot bot takes you through everything.
David: 00:11:36 Book a call, jumps on with you. Right. So it's like, it removes a
couple elements that people aren't used to. Yeah. And I say this because what I found in working with him was when he
surveyed people, he was asking them like, what's your biggest problem in getting clients as a trainer? And they all said, my funnel doesn't work. As soon as he heard that he created the funnel that works. And that was the offer. Let me give you a funnel that you could plug into your Many chat. The messaging is there, you tweak it, and then boom, you signed people and you run some ads to it, right? Yep. And as soon as he templatized everything, the offer basically became accountability plus implementation. That's all it is. I'm going to hold you accountable to plugging in everything I gave you. Yep. And then you run it and it took him two weeks to build the whole thing.
David: 00:12:26 Whereas the average high ticket person I work with, it seems
like they take three to six months to develop a program because they're overthinking it, right? They go to Quora and Google and they type in questions and like, what are everyone's problems? And then they have this giant list. And then they try to create content around every single problem versus just ask your email list, just ask your Facebook profile, you know, that's it. And then just answer those problems and then create a program around the solutions to those problems. And that's it. So first things first, survey your people. If you don't have people call your friends and be like, Hey, what do you think the average person is experiencing in this space? And you know, how do you think we could solve it? Like don't overcomplicate it. So craft your initial offer. And I always focus on five to 10 key things.
David: 00:13:11 What are the five or 10 biggest problems? And I'm gonna
provide solutions to each of those. And that at least gets my offer going. Yup. Okay. Love it. So that's just from a offer standpoint, and I know this is very simplistic, but guess what? You got to start simple first. So for sure. So I would do that. And then if you need to create course content around it, bite-sized stuff is easiest, right? Five to 10 minutes max, make it so that it's something that they can consume if they have more questions that that's what the accountability is for, right? You're, you're creating a hybrid, you have a course and coaching as your high ticket program and over time you may not even have to do the coaching, right? But in the beginning you're probably doing it yourself. And so when you're talking to these people, a part of the goal is that they have to go through your course content before they jump on with you.
David: 00:14:01 So if they're going through this five 10 minute content and you
have, let's just say 20 videos in there, your goal is going to be every week that they do at least four or five different things, right? Four or five videos by the end of the month, they will
literally have gone through everything so that your remaining coaching program is just keeping them accountable to doing the task and then answering any common questions they may have, right? So you're not making this gigantic program. You're literally creating, you know, 10 minutes per video, maybe 10 20 videos max and you're done. The rest is just communication with these people who want to achieve a result as long as they plug in your system and that's it. So you're, you're good. And I'll give you maximum month, right? You got two to four weeks to knock this out and don't build a complicated membership site, plug it into the, you know, you name a platform and then, yeah, and then you're good.
David: 00:14:55 Don't try to overcomplicate the part where you have to focus
the most attention is how you're going to bring people in, right? Your funnel and in the ad structure that goes with the funnel. So as a good example, when you talk about one of my case studies where I mentioned from zero to 3 million in a year, yup. None a couple months a year, right? We looked at multitude of different things. It was a, yes, it was a high ticket program, but it expanded over time, right? It went from selling things at 5 K to having things at 10 K to also having a software offer. And a course as well. So it expanded from one to four offers over the course of a year. Yup. But if you're just looking to expand one core offer, no better way to start than something that's five or 10 K, right? Yup. And having done for you templates or funnels and then having the accountability, plenty of people will pay five K for that.
David: 00:15:47 Plenty. And so I would say, sorry, go ahead. Again,
Joe: 00:15:52 You think it's necessary, David, to have like any done with you components in that I see some people mixing in accountability with done with you. So like, yeah. What it seems like to me as they're taking the sticking points on their programs where everybody gets stuck and doesn't get it done right. And that's where they will do some done with you. So you still got to get on a call like normal, but it's not just accountability. It's like, Hey, we gotta write out the script and we use this fill in the blank template, but I know you're not going to get it done if we don't do it together. So we'll just help you get it done. Do you see that a lot in the space?
David: 00:16:26 Yeah. And that's usually the upgrade, right?
David: 00:16:28 So the, let's just say the accountability plus all the tools you
need is 5k. If you want us to do it with you or even in some cases do it for you. That's where like the 7,510 K 15 K type stuff
pops in. Right? with a good example being the client that I mentioned that he just figured out what the common problems are and just built it. He will tell you how to build the funnel and he will give you the, the bot funnel. He won't write the messaging for you, he won't write the ads for you, he'll just show you examples if you want him to help you with all that other stuff, you gotta pay like an extra 2,500 bucks and then he'll unveil everything for you. Right? So it's a good upgrade, so to speak. And some people will just prefer that you help them with every little piece.
David: 00:17:13 And that's where you get that extra two to five grand just for,
you know, basically holding their hand a little bit more.
Joe: 00:17:20 That's great. And you could always just start at five K for
everything, right? And and then, you know, build it out as you start getting more and more results and you can't handle the additional workload, you know, you could knock it out to somebody five or add ons. So perfect. Wonderful. Yup. Love that.
David: 00:17:39 And so, you know, let's just say you spend two to four weeks
getting all that material built out, right? Templates, course material that goes along with it. You upload it into some membership platform. Very simple, right? The main thing that I then focus on is how am I going to be attracting these people into a funnel that will get them on the phone? And that's the thing with a lot of high ticket funnels these days.
David: 00:18:01 The, the, the core goal is I need to fill a calendar. If I have sales people, I need to fill multiple calendars. Right. But in this case, let's just talk about your own calendar. Yup. Let's say you want to do maximum six calls a day. You allocate the time that you want to have those calls booked. You use a calendar program like Calendly and you're good. Okay. These are the hours a day, five days a week that I can allocate for calls. Awesome. Most people in the high ticket space will have the standard funnel, which is a case study or some sort of optin, a VSL probably anywhere between 10 to 30 minutes long. And then they will go to an application page and they call booking page. Right? So the standard four page funnel. Yup. You can reduce it. And I would say this is probably where the market's going now because this is what we're doing.
David: 00:18:54 We create sort of like a hybrid VSL slash opt in page. So it's like
the VSLs in your face. But before you could even apply, you actually have to give me your name and email first before even getting to the application page. And once you get there, if you
continue to fill it out, great. We get all your info. You don't fill it out. We at least have your name and email and we can follow up with you to go ahead and apply. But the goal is that with these, these hybrids, these hybrid funnels is like, I want to be able to pinpoint the exact person I want to work with. The moment they watched that video, I don't want to waste my time and the application will double filter them, so to speak. It's like, alright, they think they're qualified, but now the application is telling me otherwise, but it's a four page funnel.
David: 00:19:37 There's nothing else to it. If you want to add a fifth page, you
basically would say, Hey, thank you so much for applying. Join my Facebook group. Right? That's the natural progression has joined some sort of group or community for essentially case studies and proof that I know what I'm doing. But the four-page funnel, the core thing that most people need to focus on is what's going to bring them in. So if you're going to do the, the optin style, you know a lot of people lead with a case study. The case study you use has to be out of this world. It can't be basic. It can't be a zero to a hundred K. Everyone has a zero to a hundred K example these days, unfortunately, which is very strange, but that's the truth. Whereas with mine, I can lead with zero to 3 million in a year and that people just go, what?
David: 00:20:21 That can't be real and then I can actually break it down. So you
have to have a case study that's unique in a sense of let's say, let's say it is zero to a hundred K, what's the unique spin to it? Zero to do a hundred K with only a one funnel and to people on the team, like what's the extra piece to it that people would go, Oh, this is me. I could totally do that. Yup. That'll lead them in, at least for the case study. But your leads will be a lot higher, right? It will cost you more to acquire that person, but then you are, you're essentially filtering from the first step. It's like who fits this profile? Gotcha. Yup. That makes perfect sense to the VSL. Okay. Now the lead magnets that a lot of my other clients will use is something like a checklist or some sort of action plan, a short action plan that they could actually use and consume and get a result with now.
David: 00:21:11 So it sort of builds that Goodwill with the audience before they
go and watch your VSL. This has more of a longterm effect because people will consume your stuff and just drop, right? They will drop off the face of the planet for a couple of weeks and then they come back and they go, man, that thing you gave me, I closed like four K worth of stuff. I think I want to work with you. So you have to think about what you're giving away here. Case studies at least. Then it's like great information. This is awesome. I want to be the next case study and at least pushes
them towards that VSL and then potentially the application. So, okay, you have to think about what's the longterm versus the short term plan here. I personally think you should have both. You lead with the case study and the people who just never consumed the case study, retarget them to the lead magnet and just get them in and then over time you'll nurture them to eventually contacting you.
Joe: 00:22:01 Love that. Yup. Okay, so very, very simple funnel.
David: 00:22:05 Very simple, very, very simple. The VSL is everything though.
The VSL is basically what's pre-qualifying, what's closing. It's literally everything in front of them. Now you would think like, who's going to actually sit through a 20 minute video? Well, a lot of people apparently sit through 20 minute videos and I have proof of that. But what you'll realize is this, you know, I mentioned having the application on the other page. You know, a lot of people, what they'll do is when they click on that button to go to another page, they don't have it open in another tab. It actually closes the VSL. So they don't hear anything that's going on. We like to have it to where the application opens in. Another tab so that way the VSL keeps playing because what happens is psychologically they're hearing all the things going on in this VSL and how much greatness is coming from it while filling out the application so they're getting more amped to wanting to work with you.
David: 00:22:57 The little trick I'll give you here is remove the application page
and put the application either right below or to the right side of the video and they never leave the page while filling it out. And what ends up happening is, is the same thing, right? They listened to the video, they're still filling in everything. They're getting excited. When they submit the page doesn't redirect at all. It still leaves them on that page. It says, Hey, thank you so much for submitting this application. Of course with pixels and everything, you've got a little get a little creative, but the point is that the application was submitted and the VSL still playing, so this at least gets them to consuming more of it because you need them to, they need to have context of what they're getting themselves into. The last thing you want is someone on a call and they're like, yeah, I only watched five minutes of your VSL.
David: 00:23:43 It's like they never even got to the point of the pitch of what I'm
going to help them with. So obviously this is going to be a very unqualified person from the start until I get through the rest of the pieces on the call. So make sure in your, your VSL, it's almost like having a mini webinar, right? Webinars for us used to be 60 to 60 minutes to an hour to two hours, right? Yep.
Sometimes let's just say 75 minutes was like the sweet spot for a lot of people. Yup. You're taking that same format and you're just condensing it to 20 minutes long. Who are you? Why they should trust you? What are you going to help them with? How many people or how have you done this in the past? Why they should work with you and here's how they can work with you.
David: 00:24:23 Like it's who have where, when, why, how. Like you're just
going through it, but you're not spreading this thing out anymore. Like you're not telling a 20 minute story anymore. You're just getting it out the way. This is who I am in the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like it's two minutes a piece. Like you're just knocking it out. But the point is is that they should be able to trust you immediately. And a lot of that we'll have to do and we'll get to the ad strategy so they can trust you, but you don't want to lead in a way where, how we used to lead our webinars, right? Look at me, look at me. Here's what I've done. I've been in a thousand publications. I've made a shit ton of money. Like if you don't want to lead with that anymore, it's more of just, Hey, I'm David Schloss.
David: 00:25:05 I have an agency. This is what I do for people. We worked with
400 plus companies in the last couple of years and I'm looking to bring on another 10 clients, right? Just made that very clear up front. Go into the message, right? It's less about you and more about how can you help. You can help them. So this is going to take you time. Some VSLs, you'll start at 30 minutes and you'll find that as you condense it, it gets more effective. Some people create a 15 minute, doesn't convert it all. They make a 20 minute it converts. That's going to be your biggest conversion point that you have to work on is the VSL. So I would highly suggest using something like Wistia or Vimeo to track your watches. Like the amount of people are watching it, how long they're watching it, where's the drop off point or any other video platform really other than YouTube.
David: 00:25:51 But because you need more sophistication and understanding
that data you can get people into the funnel. But if there's a large drop-off, that's where your problem lies and it's all about the VSL from there. And then just to touch on the application, try to keep the questions to 10 or less. Just we found it to be that anytime we ask, more than 10 people drop off, they just get lazy. If you have 15 questions you want to ask, save five or seven of them for the phone call. Just put the important ones on the application and take care of the rest on the phone. The goal here is you need volume to assess how many people you need to talk to before you close. And if you're putting too many
obstacles in place, you're not going to get enough people on the phone.
Joe: 00:26:35 Yep, for sure. Are you finding that most people are disqualifying
people right out of the gate or no, not so, no.
David: 00:26:43 They're disqualifying too quickly. Right? So what ends up
happening is applications are easily faked. There's a lot of people who will fill in an app and say they're broke, but when you get on the phone, they're actually not. And then vice versa. There's also people who say they have money and they don't, but you don't want to make it so polarizing that 80% of the audience doesn't feel that they're qualified to work with you. Yep. Want to leave it broad enough to where you can get some volume. And like I said, you need volume. In the beginning to assess what you're going to do next. Once you pinpoint the person you're getting the most success with and the type of person you want to talk to on the phone, then you can always adjust the application a bit because that'll do a lot of the filtering for you.
David: 00:27:23 Right? Especially if you set some sort of parameter where it's
like anyone who says they make less than 50 K a month in their business will redirect to a page that says, Hey, sorry you don't qualify to work with us but we have something else. Right? Yup. That's after you've gotten your, your funnel dialed in and your ads dialed in in the beginning you just need people. Yup. So for sure I work with too many coaches who set those parameters on day one. So it's like the moment someone sets a, an income level to, Oh, I make 10 K a month, they automatically disqualify. I'm like, you haven't talked to the person yet. What if they've been making 10 K a month for five years and they got this money stashed away and they could join your program. So don't set so many boundaries that you people can overcome them.
David: 00:28:08 Like get some people on the phone and talk to them. Why did
you apply for this program? Yeah, what got you here in the first place? Was it this ad or this ad? You know, just you need to communicate with some people in the beginning and you got to communicate that with your sales person if you have one or just be prepared mentally yourself that there's going to be plenty of people you talk to that don't qualify, but you're really just there to gain data from them. Why did you get here in the first place? Yup. What are the problems? What can I help you with? Exactly. Yup. Yup. Because essentially you're creating your FAQ, right? You're creating your database of order. These frequently asked questions, what are the frequently as problems, right? And then
you're going to create the solutions over time. Perfect. So once again, simple funnel.
David: 00:28:49 Let's just say at the least, it can be three pages at the most. It's
going to be five. It's really not more than that. Okay. Anything else beyond that is just you trying to add value, right? Join my Facebook group. Here's some more stuff that you can watch from me. Maybe you take them through a mini mini three-day series. You know, just like giving them more free value, but you don't have to overcomplicate it. Most people just want to get on the phone and once they do that, they're good. Everything else after that supplemental, okay. What you really want to do is flood them with content in the beginning. That's where your ad strategy comes into place. So with the $3 million case study, as an example of when we first started, the client didn't have 10 20 pieces of content to deliver. What we did was we, once again, we looked at the common problems from assessing his list and then we started with videos that were addressing each individual problem.
David: 00:29:39 So it's like one problem was one video and we basically took the
five most common ones and created an ad specific to each problem. So in this case, as an example, let's say a problem is I can't scale my business from 10 to 20 K or I can't scale it beyond 10 K a month, right? We would then create a video around what's the most common problem people are having when they are scaling from 10 to 50 K or tento a hundred K. Right? And then we'll address things like, you don't outsource or you don't know how, you don't have systems, you don't even know where to begin. You don't have an ad process. No, you'd never run ads, right? So it's like we would just go down the line and we would present each of these problems to the ideal audiences that we wanted to target, right?
David: 00:30:23 So let's just say business owners in this case with the high ticket offer I was promoting, this guy was an eCommerce store owner, multiple seven figure stores. This guy was killing it in e-com, didn't have to make a coaching offer, wanted to because he had some time. This is a guy who obviously had systematized his business so much that he's like now take on some coaching people too. You know it's okay, it's cool. So how did we position him in a way, cause he was underground. No one knows who he is making all this money and he's like, I want to do a coaching program. Cool. What do we have to do to put you in front of people so they could trust you? Right? So first, where's the social proof elements? What have you built? And let's be transparent with what you've built.
David: 00:31:04 Because a lot of coaches out there don't ever say what they've
actually built. Yeah. So let's go out there and be like, I've built boom, boom, boom. All right, so let's have a, let's first just call it the social proof video. Before ever we put out an ad saying, here's why you should trust me and sign up for my stuff. Let's just put out a social proof video. So the whole video is literally about him, is who I am. Here's how I've done things over the years. I've been in business for 15 plus years. I've built multiple stories. You might've heard of some of them, like he went through like live here, my stores go look it up. Like go ahead. And they're on Amazon, they're on Shopify. Like just gave away the whole farm so to speak. Like here you go. But more people built respect around him because of that, because he wasn't hiding anything.
David: 00:31:43 It's like go ahead and look at it. You're not going to hurt me if
you try to rip it off, like go ahead. And that first established his credibility. We didn't have the run a lot of money behind it either 25 bucks a day to just all the audiences we planned to market to, but we just ran it as like an engagement ad and we just let it run 25 bucks a day. And we didn't turn that off by the way, for like nine months. We just left it on because we knew that people rotate in these audiences constantly. And then of course, you know, be it a little granular. We would exclude people after a certain period of time. So they wouldn't see it, you know, a thousand times. But the point was is we wanted to be in your feed constantly so you wouldn't be on your Instagram.
David: 00:32:23 We were on your Facebook. Like when stories came in, I'm like,
let's rip this. Boom, let's put it in a story. Like we were everywhere. But the goal was that we wanted you to learn who he was and then that's when we start putting out those ads around the problems and the solutions. At first it was five. Over the course of a year, it became something like 15 or 20 different variations of ads and we just wanted to address all problems because something that would work with one audience on let's say, how to go from 10 to 50 K or 10 to a hundred K like that would work with a specific set. But then all of a sudden we talk about outsourcing and that works with a completely different set. Then we talk about maybe you don't want to scale your econ business, you want to sell it off.
David: 00:33:04 There's a process to doing it. That's a whole different group
audiences, right? So we would look at, yes we have these 50 or a hundred audiences you want to target, but every time you run a new angle you have to test them with these audiences again. Yup. Because they're not going to overlap every single time. And
so we would do this, you know, incrementally over time we wouldn't just launch 10 angles at once. It was one angle launched. These audiences cut back on what's not working and then next week we'll run another angle. So it took us about three months to run through every angle that we could think of at that time. And by the time we did that, we had five ads that were just continuously bringing leads in to our five page funnel that gave away a case study. Right. And it was just, it was all the same case study because we touched upon each of these problems in the case study, which was in the VSL, right?
David: 00:33:56 So you have a problem with outsourcing, we're going to talk
about that in the VSL, which all he ever mentioned in the VSL was, I'm going to help you build your outsourcing systems. That's the only time you ever mentioned it, but it's the fact that they were all addressed. Yep. So in the ad process, look at how many problems people are having, what are the common ones, right. And most of the time they overlap. So you can create one big problem and you would create an eight ad video around each of those problems. And the solution is they should go work with you. Right? But the solution is, Hey, I put together a case study that addresses this problem and how we overcame this problem to achieve X result, right? 3 million in 12 months and in the VSL goes through the whole process. Right? So we just did like I said, over time it was about 20 videos, five worked really well.
David: 00:34:41 But then from there, in order to scale, it's less about let's go and
create more videos and more videos. No, those five videos can be repurposed a dozen ways. Yeah. And I, one of my other case studies that I put out there at once was about how I took one sales video and I told my client to do it in 16 different t-shirts. It ended up being 16 I didn't say 16 out of nowhere, but he did it in 16 different shirts and we found that the color purple was his best converting video. Wow. That was my first like Holy crap moment of like, Oh, I didn't even have to change the language. We just changed the tee shirt and people had no idea. So how do we apply this to your ad videos? Well you got the five ones that are crushing it now you're three months in.
David: 00:35:31 How do we keep this fresh? Go record those five again in a
different place. Go wear a different shirt, go do it in your car versus your house. Like it's just change up. Right. And know that I'm one of the most popular people who've done this is actually Sam ovens. Sam ovens is literally said the same thing in like 20 videos, but he's always somewhere different and you think it's something different. And then if you really combine them all together, you're like, Oh he literally said that 20 videos ago. But
you wouldn't know because you're like, man, this guy's like really giving me new stuff all the time. And he does. But you know the smart ones know the real split test has just changed the environment, changed the tee shirt, you know, maybe change your tone inflection. Everyone thinks it's new. And that's what we did for that whole year.
David: 00:36:17 We were just taking these same five problems and repurposing
little by little new environment, new shirt. I mean I say shirt cause it's like it's always, you know, basically waist up for the most part. But you know, we were just changed those little elements. But the, the ad process that we took with that is, you know, now it's, it's slightly different because Facebook's evolved into campaign budget optimization and, and the way that you structure campaigns is very different than when I put out that case study about a year ago. So basically, yes, you have your warm audiences and you have your cold audiences and I call them semi warm. The semi warm audiences are ones who've seen your content, but they never actually opted in. Maybe they've clicked on something of yours, like an article or something, but they still have never consumed anything of yours. If you have a list, it's always the first place you start, right?
David: 00:37:06 You start with your email list, phone list, whatever lists you
have, because that brings money in the door, it brings money in quickly and you can repurpose it and bring it right back in to the business to run towards cold. So the best place to start with testing your funnel and your process is with people who are, you know who you are. If you don't have those people, that's fine. I'm just saying for those of you who have something the easiest to make a quick buck so that you can run this to cold traffic. Now in that video where I mentioned the social proof video, like who I am, what I do, and all that, you are building audiences. You're building engagement audiences when you're running that Facebook engagement, Instagram engagement video viewers, right? And if you, if you've ever dug into Facebook before, you know, you can do three second views, ten second views they've watched 50% of the content, 75%, right?
David: 00:37:55 It can, it can expand pre, pretty in depth. And so you could see,
you know, how much are these people actually consuming of mine all the way down the line to possibly watching the whole thing. And this can apply to any of your content, right? The add videos, the free stuff. And so what I was looking for was from the semi warm audiences, how many people are like commenting and sharing. That's the engagement audiences and then how many people are getting to at least 50% of my
content. Gotcha. Those audiences are typically the ones that are the most favorable when you don't have a list. Right? Those are the ones that are like, Oh, these people really liked my stuff. Yup. So we were putting out this content we were tracking. At what point were people dropping off? Where are we getting a decent amount of people that 50% of the way or are they engaging?
David: 00:38:42 And naturally over time, these audiences will build and build and building it larger. So the more data that those audiences get, the better they become over time. If you put enough money behind it at some point, it's like everything clicks. You, if you put a hundred bucks a day towards it, it's going to take you like six months before it really starts to work in your favor. But Hey, six months later, you're making a hundred grand a month from these audiences that you weren't doing before. So you just gotta be patient. We were spending out of the gate basically like 500 to a thousand bucks a day because the guy was already making money. So it was like, let's get data now. Let's, let's do this right now. So I can assess where to scale later. And, and I would tell you that most people could probably start at a hundred bucks a day and get a pretty decent result after 30 to 60 days. Meaning you're getting leads consistently coming into the funnel.
David: 00:39:36 At least at 100 bucks a day now. Awesome. So I would say, you
know, if you want to have a structure of content to be built before running into this thing, have your one social proof video, maybe two if you want to expand upon more about you. Yup. Five videos around common problems and how you're gonna address that in your, in your funnel. Right. So your, the five most common problems I see in the space and I put together this case study to basically solve those problems.
Joe: 00:40:03 Yup.
David: 00:40:05 And then you're going to need to retargeting videos and these retargeting videos are essentially, you know, one saying, Hey I noticed that you were here. Right. I noticed that you saw my, my a case study. You haven't quite taken the next step. You know, basically you're just addressing like Hey here's why I really believe you should opt in. Yup. The second retargeting video you're going to make it less about like, Hey I've been following you. Right. Cause the first one you're basically saying that. The second one is more of like think of an alternative angle to why they should optin, right? So in my case, if you were going to opt in for the zero to 3 million case study, the obvious angle is we break down everything of like the ad campaigns, the copy
the audience you should target and basically how you can achieve a similar result if you have a similar business.
David: 00:40:51 The alternative angle to that is I'm going to break down all the
systems and processes that we used in order for this business to scale to 3 million and how you can apply it in your own business, right? So we talked less about here's all the stuff and then we just only talked about processes in the second year, right? So you're thinking about what's the alternative angle in the second retargeting ad? That right there is eight pieces of content that you can use for ads just to start to run towards the funnel, right? That's your, your minimum viable product right there. So once again, one social proof, five add videos to retargeting, you got eight total.
Joe: 00:41:30 Yup. When you look at the funnel, when you look at the funnel,
what's, what's like the funnel math, like which would be people's goals, like to start is $100 an application, a goal? Is it 200? Is it 50? Is it like, what's a good starting point so that people know if they're on track or they at least have some type of a shining light to look towards?
David: 00:41:55 Yeah. So a lot of industries will say that less than a hundred
bucks is like the Holy grail. And it is in some spaces you can get it for 50 or 60 bucks an app or less even. But that doesn't necessarily mean there are great applications. I find that the sweet spot is more of like a 100 to 125. It's been that way for years. But there are some spaces where even two bucks in a $200 an app is great because they're highly qualified, right?
David: 00:42:21 So I'm okay with getting a $300 app because that person is so
qualified on paper that it seems like it's almost like a 90% chance we're gonna close them on the phone and we're experiencing that with a client right now. You know he's averaging around 100 bucks an app. I'd say it's like one Oh five but if you look at his application data in depth, it's actually three apps before we get a super qualified person. So we're actually paying $300 now and he's still happy. I mean great money. His offers very high tickets so it's worth it. But if you want to look at it from the service level, it's $100 an app. It took us 90 days to get there. In the beginning we were at about two 20 an app before we found the messaging that worked and brought it down. And so just keep that in mind.
David: 00:43:06 A 100 to 125 is like a sweet spot for a lot of places, a lot of these
places.
Joe: 00:43:10 So Then what do you see like their close rate is on that app.
Then? Like, I know it's gotta be very different. But like, yeah, highest level possible. Like what? What do you see on your side?
David: 00:43:19 Yes, so I mean like the, the super closers is I like to call them,
which would be like if you and I jumped on the phone with someone who's knows we're talking with them, we're going to close in minimum 50% probably even higher just because we know what we're doing, right? But we're also in the video, so it's a lot easier for us to to sell because sure, you're my name, they hear my voice like, Oh, I'm talking to David. Like now it makes it easier to sell.
David: 00:43:44 What happens when you take it away from me and you give it
to Brian and Brian has to go sell for David. It changes the whole dynamic. But the salesperson could still achieve a 20 to 30% close rate. I've seen even higher. I'm just speaking average. Let's just say for the sake of an easy example, the, the sales person closes one out of four, right? So 25% that's 25% of those that show. So once again, let's say you get a a hundred apps, maybe 80% of them might book a call. If you're lucky, sometimes even less. Let's just say 80% book. Then from the, from those, that book, one fourth will be closed by your sales person. That's usually what happens as long as they get on the phone. So you know that that's what I'm seeing. Of course, I said if we get on the phone, it's a completely different dynamic.
David: 00:44:34 It's a lot easier to close cause they're like they're talking to the
source and in the beginning that's actually what happens is as long as they get on the phone with you and you go through your, if you have a script or if you go through just your normal process of like, is this person qualified for how or how can I help them? Or if not, if I, I don't think I can help them. You have a very good chance of closing them and getting money on the call. Yup. Yeah. That's what I experienced with most people. You will have to take calls in the beginning if you're more of a small business or micro-business for that matter. You know, if you're not even doing a hundred K a month yet, like you're most likely doing the calls yourself. I find that when most of these guys get to about a hundred K they at least bring on one sales person because that's when they start to ramp up the ads and then they need someone else to jump on the phone. And so yeah, then it can evolve from there.
David: 00:45:27 Oh, thank you. Muted yourself.
Joe: 00:45:30 Sorry about that. You were going to talk about audiences before
I interrupted you.
David: 00:45:34 Yeah. So with audiences I like to start with at least at least 20.
So interest based audiences, you know, most people are going to start, those are completely cold. Facebook keeps re, re sort of like reevaluating their interests. So it's beginning, it's getting broader and broader. But here's the cool part about that. I'm able to obtain data so much faster now cause it used to be that the smaller interests were like the gold mines. Oh, all the ones that are lower case and you know, and they only have 100,000 people. Yeah. Those used to demolish competition back in the day. Now I'd rather go for the broad stuff and just let Facebook do its thing because if your pixel matures enough to where the applications are coming in and the leads are coming in, the volume will be there enough to where then you can start to, you know, pull who exactly it is that you want based on your messaging.
David: 00:46:23 Right? So it's like you find that this message is what grabs the
people you really look for. You start to use that more in your ads. The pixel starts to notice the people who are responsive to it, it'll adjust, right? You give more leeway now with Facebook to do its job. Back then you kind of had the pinpoint every little thing to get the exact person you're looking for. So that's why you have these filters in place when you're in your funnel. So that way if a bunch of people come in that aren't qualified, decided to apply, no worries. You can kick them out. And then not have to worry about it. So I start with at least 20 interests audiences. I always create a master list though of what I plan to target over time, but I start with at least 20 and I'll start with let's just call them like the broadest ones.
David: 00:47:04 I get the broadest ones out the way first because there's so much data behind them, right? There's 3 million here and 2 million there. It's like, let's go ahead and try these out and see how the general market responds. If you have an email list, you're actually going to start with your lookalikes. You're going to start with your 1% of your purchases, 1% of your subscribers, like you're going to get a lot of 1% that's the most relevant according to Facebook. And you can build out to as high as 10% which is your broadest audience. Once again, a couple of years ago, 1% 2% killed the competition all the time. Nowadays my five and 10% tend to do better. You don't know until you test them, right? And so build them all, right? You got a buyers list, you've got a subscriber list, build the one to 10% for each. If you're someone who has multiple offers like, like yourself, Joe, you would do the subscriber list for this specific lead gen, right?
David: 00:47:58 Or the subscriber list for this offer. And then you would do the
buyers list for this offer, right? And you can do it with each level of segmentation. Most people are just going to do buyers subscribers. And then you would build one to 10% there and you would run them each of those lookalikes in the very beginning. Cause those are the ones most similar to your ideal audience. And so once again, if you're on a finite budget, you're not gonna run all of them at the same time. You might run one a day, one every couple of days. I like to do these things in 72 hour increments, but I'm watching 20 audiences over 72 hours. So it's like, here's 20 audiences they run for three days. Of course I'll make adjustments on day two and three. It's just, I'm giving them a three day window before it add more audiences.
David: 00:48:42 So you launched Monday. By the end of Wednesday, I've
already cut things off and I've left the ones that are working alone. Thursday morning, boom, another 20 get loaded and they're automatically running. And this is all scheduled. So I, if I'm doing, you know, a hundred audiences, I have these scheduled already, two to three weeks out, they're ready. Now, don't get me wrong, if I run all these angles in the first six days, seven days, nothing's working. Don't worry, those, those scheduled ones are not going out right. It's, I was just prepared in case it was working that they would just automatically kick on. So you are going to have to adjust your angles over time. But this, this gives you an idea, like you could schedule things out for three weeks in advance if you have that many audiences. The main thing is you'll have to just see whether or not your angles are converting in the very beginning. Okay. [inaudible] and then
Joe: 00:49:34 So you did a really good job breaking down the entire process.
So first and foremost, thank you man. This has been great. From the highest level, what's, what's the 80 20 here? Like once the funnel is built, right, and Facebook is doing its thing, the, the campaigns off the ground, what's the 80 20 or if we apply the 80 20 itself, the 64 four, right. What's the 64 four of this entire thing? Like what are the things we've got to make sure that, that we get right in that stay top of mind.
David: 00:50:02 Yeah. So once the applications are coming in, cause that's
obviously your, your end goal is I need people to apply and get on the phone. Like don't forget about your fulfillment. Number one, so many people mess up the fulfillment once they start to get people booking calls and, and paying is all of a sudden it's like they're fulfillment takes a dump and, and they, they, they never actually fulfill upon what they promise. So make sure that, you know, from the 60 40 side of things, it's like you still
need the fulfill everything. So that 60% should be all fulfillment and making sure that these people are getting results. Your first three months. It should be not about mass scale, it should be are my ads producing leads? Are they bringing applications? Have I close some sales and are my clients or customers getting results? Now, if they are in month four you could take those results and use them in your ads and blow up the business, right?
David: 00:50:53 But you need to make sure these people are at least fulfilling
upon what they said they're going to do. And are they getting results with it, right? So you're going to put a lot more attention on the client or customer in the very beginning because you want to make sure that everyone's getting results. Don't get me wrong, you want to do that all the way through, but there might be less attention on that later when you've dialed in, how they're getting this information. You know how often you're doing these calls, that sort of thing, right? So in the beginning it's all about them and then you're just taking that data back to adjust later. So the the 40% though is really gonna be what angle is driving the leads. Is the VSL converting like what? At what point on the VSL are they dropping off and how much is my applications costing?
David: 00:51:34 Right? It's, it's typical advertising, right? It's just understanding
your metrics. Can I afford this lead? Can I afford this application? But in order to get to the point where the 60% is actually your ads and the 40% is the fulfillment, that's that's the scale side, like that's when you know, all right, my calls are on these days. I have a set calendar for when I'm doing coaching calls. Maybe you went from single a one on one coaching to group coaching, right? You've really systematized the fulfillment process. Maybe you brought on coaches to do it for you and now you're putting all your attention on the advertising. When it flips, that's when you're at scale. Now you know, okay, how many angles do I need to create? Do I put more attention on these three angles that are converting better than the other two right? Now you put more attention on the ads themselves, right?
David: 00:52:22 Yup. And then also expansion. Maybe we're only working on the
U S right now. Do we want to expand to Canada in the UK, in Australia, right. Most people do all that stuff first and then they get burnt and it's like we spent all this money and nothing's converting. Well of course cause you went way too broad and you didn't just find one thing that works first and then scaled out. Let people just try to scale out first. So I would say like the 60 40 is like, yes, get your ads dialed in, don't get me wrong.
You need them in order to bring in those clients, but make sure that everything's getting fulfilled. People are getting results. You're getting some testimonial videos back, you're getting some case studies built out because those are going to help you scale for the remainder of the year. If you want to create your own 12 months case study of how you were able to go from zero to a million or zero to 3 million with X amount of clients. Right. Cause then you'll build out other offers down the road to which we didn't even get into. Right. But it was, you know, you got to get the first offer off the ground, get the five K out there, build the systems around it and make sure people fulfill and then you can work on the ads later.
Joe: 00:53:23 Yup. So you said something beautiful that I want to hit on
Joe: 00:53:26 There. We just talked about this front end high ticket offer in
this $3 million in revenue in 12 months. Right. You said that there was obviously more offers that came after that down the line. Right. Once I got dialed in, how important, I guess was this existing audience and lead flow to the later success of the new product or products that got added?
David: 00:53:48 Yeah, so we had a warm list to begin with. It wasn't large. It was
like 15 20,000 people, which I know to some people was like, that's a large audience. Well in this guy's space it's not. Okay. So we were basically using this list to just first test whether or not people wanted coaching. We found out they did. Awesome. That's a great place to start. But down the line, he realized that people were having the same problems over and over. So he tried to address these problems either in, you know, let's say the first thing was I can't afford your coaching. And he had a lot of people saying that. So eventually one of the offers became, well if you can't afford the coaching, we have a thousand dollar course, right? It's an 80% discount. Boom, here you go. Right. That's, it was a natural progression for him to create that.
David: 00:54:30 Anyway. But then he also realized that, you know, with the
whole software angle that he eventually created, people were having research issues. They were like, I don't know where to go. Or they would go down this massive rabbit hole of like just research all day and they would never do anything else. So he just created a research tool, like a simple research tool. They would, you know, pull different things and you know, give them what they were looking for based on certain criteria. Very similar like let's say Google keyword tool, boom, plug this all in. And there you go. Right. And by doing that, it would simplify the research process. It didn't have to be high ticket, it was very cheap. You know, we're talking like just a $47 a month type of
thing. But imagine all these people jumping on calls, all these people on the lists.
David: 00:55:11 Like, all right, you can't afford working with me on a one on one
circumstance. How about you buy the course? And then the people who bought the course, it's like, don't forget we have a tool that simplifies a lot of this for you. Right. So he was creating things that would just address these problems over time. The fourth offer just became like his highest ticket thing where it's like, gotcha, let's do a mastermind. Right? That's a, it always comes up when you're doing high ticket stuff. It's like five K to work with me, 20 K to see me in person. Right. It's, it's always that type of thing. And I did it as a joke with him cause I was like, Hey man, you ever want to do an event? Yeah. Okay. Why don't you just charge like 15 or 20 [inaudible] for people to show up to your thing because like your time is very valuable and you know, maybe the ones who are having success with your stuff will show up at least.
David: 00:55:55 Okay. That sounds like a good idea. Like it was just off a whim and he's like, you know, I don't know man, I don't, I don't feel great about charging 20 K I'm like, then don't do 10 K do seven like just do something and see what happens. We didn't expect like 30 or 40 people to want to pay immediately. Like yeah, I want to go to this thing. And it became this like was first a joke. Then it became an actual offer and it's like, Oh my God, we could actually charge 20 K person because people are telling us that it's too cheap. Yup. So of course I'm like, all right, just charge 20 K you do deliver 20K worth of value. All these people are on pace to have six figure stores. You need the just charge 20 K like there's no reason not to at this point.
David: 00:56:40 So he did it and low and behold he was always booked out and he would do only two masterminds a year. Now you and I have that circumstance. We would have done four year, a minimum, maybe even six if we want to push it. But he was like, I'm good with two. All right, no problem. But if you can get 30 people to show up at 20 K a piece, you're good. So he was definitely happy with that and it was really just because it's like what else could we create? And that was the last thing I can think of at the time. I was like a mastermind. And then of course there you go. Half a million dollars next year. The next year.
Joe: 00:57:18 Yeah. Out of out of that case study, I guess like what percentage
of the revenue was second or third or fourth product? Like if you had to guess, right, like that's what I want people to take away is like, just because an offer made some money on the front or broke even doesn't mean that like that's, that's
everything. I mean that's nothing like that. If you could do that, that's fantastic. If you make money on the front end, that's, that's great. But I don't think people look at business like that.
David: 00:57:47 Yeah. The funny thing is like, even though the mastermind came
later, it wasn't the majority of the sales, right? Cause we only ran in that case study, we only ran one mastermind, so it wasn't 20 K a pop when we started, it was actually only like 10 so gotcha. You know, after the fact, if I did a followup case study, like the guy made way more near 2 because we dialed in everything, but the majority of the sales came from that, that 5k offer. I would say. Let's just say it's like over 50% of the sales were there. The funny thing, once the course came into the picture, it was a very easy down sell over the phone to get people to buy a thousand dollar course. And it would, yes, cover some ad spend. Awesome. Right now we can take this thousand, flip it, do it again.
David: 00:58:32 But when about 30 to 35% of your sales are the are the down
sell on the phone. Like now you're starting to think, Oh, I could sell this thing on its own, I should do an auto webinar, I should do some affiliate stuff like that. Now your brain starts percolating like how else can I sell the course by itself and that's where we realize like the course and the software bundle could probably be 30 to 40% of the sales, maybe even more down the line if we put all of our attention there and so in the beginning, yes, majority of the sales 5k offer, here you go, everything looks fantastic making money on the front end. That's really just because we understood the angles from the very beginning that we got it to convert. Most people, it's not going to be the case. You're going to have to fine tune it over time.
David: 00:59:17 You might spend five K to get a six K client. You might spend
four to get a % K client, but you're going to fine tune it over time. Then once you start to realize what people are really looking for, like what other opportunities do I have to work with you. That's where having that software in that chorus bundle eventually led to like, man, we're getting an extra 30% of our sales just from this. And it would not only cover our ad spend, it, I it actually ended up becoming like, Oh, we have an extra 40 K just from the sales of this thing that we don't put any attention on. And I think maybe we should put just some attention on it, you know? So it started to change the narrative over time. But yeah, and then once you have that super high ticket, that mastermind type thing, it changes the whole dynamic. Cause then you know, you have one really good event or one really good push, let's just say it. You have a 10K offer and you sell 10 of those. All of a sudden the pendulum swings and you're like,
man, if I get people into my first high ticket, it's an easy progression into that upgrade. And now all of a sudden it's like, man, an extra 30% of my sales came from this thing instead. Right. So it changes all the percentages. Okay.
Joe: 01:00:21 Awesome. Brother. [inaudible] So top of the hour we got to
wrap it up. I just want to say thank you Ben. An awesome hour super fast. I knew it would a got one last question for you. So at the end of every podcast, I feel like everybody asks for book recommendations and they're like, what are the three books? And then they give everybody a bunch of book ideas. I love books, I'm all for it. But I do things a little different. And so I want to ask you, David, what's the, what's the one book that as you look at your business has made the biggest impact? Not like this was good and I pulled a couple ideas that I live by out of this, but like you look at your business and like fundamentally like this changed my business.
David: 01:01:00 Yeah. So there was a book called mastery by Robert Green.
There's a lot of principles in there with like his other books about like the 50th law and all these other things. But it was more about like honing in on your craft, going all in like the 10,000 hours type of principle. But it was more of just looking at the overarching idea behind mastering your craft, mastering yourself, mastering your self worth, like just overall mastery. Because once you master one thing, you tend to be able to master a lot of other things, right? It just seems to bleed over into other things. And so I found that when I read that book, it was like, I'm gonna use this for everything that I do and it's gonna make a lot of this stuff a lot easier on me. And that's where I found myself really pulling that and using it everywhere in my life.
Joe: 01:01:44 Awesome man. So definitely will check out that book. I actually
haven't read that one, but second time on the podcast that's been recommended in like the last two weeks. So I gotta check it out. I'll make sure to link up your Facebook and your Instagram and convert ROI. Is there any place else that we should link up in the show notes for your brother?
David: 01:02:00 No, just a, if you hit me up on the convert site, there absolutely
is a messenger box where if you leave a message there, I actually see it. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know people on Facebook but basically, you know, Facebook and Instagram, I'm there all the time for obvious reasons. If you go to my website like I, you can email me direct or you could just leave a message in the messenger box and yeah, those are the three primary places that you can hit me up.
Joe: 01:02:26 Awesome, man. Thanks so much David. Really appreciate it.
Thanks for showing up and dropping some major knowledge bombs for everybody. Appreciate See you guys.
