Serial entrepreneur and influencer Los Silva has over 15 years of experience launching successful online companies. Los specializes in working with influencers, thought leaders, and creators, helping them grow their brands and scale past seven and eight figures.
In this episode, Los gets real about what it takes to succeed in the online marketing space and gives us a rundown of the key levers that have been critical to his success.
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Joe Troyer 0:43
Hey everybody is Joe Troyer and welcome to another episode of Show Me the Nuggets. Today we have on a guest that then I feel like should have been on since a long time ago, a good friend of mine, Los Silva, Los man without further ado, welcome to the show.
Sup, man, thanks for having me. I know I feel like I should have helped launch this thing. But it's all good. No worries.
Joe Troyer 1:06
So man, I'm excited to catch up. We haven't been talking too much lately. I think COVID and everything else we're both like hustling and grinding right now I feel like we're both in like big growth mode in what we're doing. So excited to catch up and see what you guys are what you're up to right now. Before we dive in, though, and talk about today, man, let's talk about the past. How'd you get involved in digital marketing, let's talk about maybe how we met and got introduced to each other because man, it's been a long time.
We met at in a group in a Facebook group in 2007 or 2008 called, I think it was called Florida Marketing Mafia. And it was just random internet marketers in Florida. And from there, there was like a local event in Florida. I drove to it, you drove to it. Super random it was in random a hotel, and we just kicked it. We drank a bunch. And that's how friendships get started. And we've been you know, you're one of my best friends. So like, we've been super close. We do family trips at least once a year. You know, it's been amazing, man. I mean, I've known you now. What is that? Like? 12 years? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I mean, I got started, you know, on Facebook, doing Facebook groups like that kind of doing consulting for that to that to LinkedIn, got into more digital marketing with ads. And now we do a lot of stuff in the creator, kind of like influencer space and also with e commerce.
Joe Troyer 2:29
Alright, cool. So right now you guys run media through your agency called SVG media. Right? And primarily, you guys are doing eCom there. But you do do lots of stuff inside that brand, right?
So, SVG is actually changing names to Creator Agency, because we're only focused on working with creators. So influencers, thought leaders, etc. We have a separate arm, essentially, it's actually a separate company. Now it's called Powerhouse. And that one does media specifically for e commerce. We only take on a few people, what we've done is we've hired new people on that side, I took some of the top people to come help lead that and build it out. And my partner, Josh, and I take equity in two or three companies a year, and we grow them internally. So it's kind of like a different model with one of them. We do do more like service work. But the other one, it's got to be like a ridiculous deal of not we're really not that interested. We're more interested in growing our own companies and having equity in those things.
Cool, man. So I would say your specialty. And correct me if I'm wrong, man. But going from minimum viable, having some revenue, kind of figuring something out, kind of have something working on the ad side, and you've figured out the fulfillment side, and now you're ready to really grow, seems like over the years has really been like your sweet spot.
Yeah, I suck at working with beginners. It's not my it's just over the years. I mean, I've been doing this thing like 15 years now. It's just not where I like get excited. Is there a lot of money in beginners? 100% it's just not the kind of stuff I want to be doing. And so we really work with people that are doing 20 to 50,000 a month, and want to take it to a million or more, we've been lucky enough, like I've been a part of four businesses now that have hit eight figures. And I've had a percentage in a few, over a dozen, seven figures. And now we kind of just have a system and a process and a model. I don't veer into too many things that I don't know, either. That's another big thing that I you know, me, I used to be like, let's start a sandwich company, let's start a clothing company. Let's make $1 for tomorrow. And it was never really good. Because it was $1 for tomorrow, not $1 for the next year. And now I'm very, very focused on like, even with one of the businesses we have now, like it's going well. And when everyone's like, in here trying to be like, let's speed it up, let's put it up on the floor. My goal is for 2021 to be doing X amount of recurring, and we're on track for that, and not looking to mess this system up. Right. And so I think as you grow as a seasoned entrepreneur, it's a lot less it also, it's because we have money, right? So it's not that crazy, we can think longer term. But I want to be more a part of longer term opportunities that are not fly by night are not quick hits, you know, like if I wanted a quick hit, I'll go to the gym and get that endorphin rush, but I'm not gonna try to build a business anymore out of that.
Joe Troyer 7:13
Yeah, it makes perfect sense, man. You said, you know, you for lack of a better word, you have kind of a playbook that you turn to for these brands, you know, and you've jumped, I've seen you, you know, helping influencers helping ecom companies. And I mean, just doing crazy things. What is kind of the the main thing that you turn to in that playbook? What are the three or four levers that you find yourself like, consistently pulling that just other people aren't as well as you guys are just better underperforming, so to speak.
So the big thing is always we put a face to the brand. I work with a lot of influencers, I used to be partners with them. But we've sold some of those brands, I learned my lesson. Now we just pay them. And we always have to have a face of the brand because that creates an opportunity to build brand to build community in so most people are going for brand first. And nowadays. It just doesn't work. Even without just the face. Using a lot of user generated content is something that we do. We just connect humans to the brand and that really humanizes the opportunity for us to make more sales, we focus on increasing average order value, we run a lot of media, we're at like, 4 million a month now I'm almost on ads. And so we've realized that what really works is bumping that AOV up, you're not you know, a lot of people we work with, they're. They're like, I got to get my cost per impressions down,. No, you don't. It is what it is, we can't change that. Let's just try to get a bigger average order. Let us learn what lifetime value means and how long we can afford to maybe even lose a couple bucks to bring people in. And so that's what we do in e-commerce. When it comes to influencers or thought leaders and stuff, we focus more on high ticket it again, just it's because it allows us to lose money, right? Like when you're spending ads. It's a loss game, like we're going to lose money, oftentimes more than you even make it but we get the data. And then if we have a higher ticket offer, you allow yourself the opportunity to make those mistakes, pivot and see how you can consistently generate more traffic leads and sales. And again, like always focusing on a back end, right everyone always have this one product, this one idea. And that's great. But for scale, you're going to find yourself like topped and capped. And you're going to need more not just for the sake of doing more but for the sake to be able to have an opportunity to get more revenue in the door not just to take home but to build an actual company. So really lifetime value, average order value and always working with people and on the on the influencer side going higher end we used to do a lot of Ascension funnels, and I don't recommend them anymore. Unless you're seasoned and you just have money to blow. There's too much learning and data and problems that can happen with that. And you're going to you're going to slide into like $120 average order value and $110 cost of acquisition it's just too narrow one little mistake and your negative tens of thousands dollars. So higher ticket allows us to do a better, better job at like scaling.
Joe Troyer 10:11
That's awesome. So yeah, lifetime value, average order value and putting a face to the brand. I think those are all really, really good takeaways. I love what you said with with, with lifetime value to and AOV. A business partner of mine says, we're working on a funnel, and he says, What's your cost per sale? I'm like $1500. He's like, That's it? I'm like, What do you mean? That's it? Yeah. I mean, it could probably be less, I think we might be able to get up to 1200. He's like, no, like, you need that to be like 2500. Like, what? What are you talking about? He's like you, you need to budget more on your cost per sale, figure out how to make the rest of it float, and like media will become no problem. You know, buying traffic then like, all your stressors are gone. Like, because you can easily hit those KPIs.
Yeah. Wow. Like, we were working with someone who helps us on some funnel sides. And he was like, man, cost per booking is crazy. Good. We're at $61. And I was like, I don't care. He's like, What do you mean, like, look like look at the cost per booking, I was like, look at the cost for actual application, look at the cost per app was like cheap. And look at the actual cost per booking. It's costing us $700, to book and he's like, Oh, I know, it's crazy, I think it's fine, we can actually go up to $1500. Actually, for booking, because I know the math on that. So we can keep scaling. But you got to stop. I don't care what it costs to basically get an applicator half ass application. You're not applying, not coming in, like, it's not real money. Real Money is I got 10 people that actually paid, I paid for to get on a call. And if it works, then I can match that money out. But the cop might as well just be talking about cost per lead. Like who cares?
Joe Troyer 11:49
Yeah, it's just such a vanity metric. I think at the end of the day, you know, you get so caught up in those vanity metrics that you lose sight of what's really important.
Right, right. And sometimes people don't know what's really important because they go to events, and they only hear the vanity metrics, like Not a lot of people think, you know, when I see this booking thing, they're like, dude, that's kind of crazy. I'm like, bro, our average cost of sales 2750 recurring. So it's a $33,000 annualized sale, like, I'm good. You know?
Joe Troyer 12:20
So let's take that high ticket example. Like that's very similar to like, what agencies that are listening to this potentially out for a customer, you know, lifetime value, you know, I have an offer. That's about a third of that. And so I think for context, in that business, when you're watching media, what are the KPIs that you care about? Not the team, right? I'm sure the team all in their different divisions have all these different numbers. But how do you as the business owner, like, how do you keep your mind straight? Like, what are the things that that you focus on?
I only focus on what is it costing us to actually get bookings in the high ticket, right. And the reason is, just like you said, Everyone has like a, like a skill set in mind at this point isn't so much to look at, like I don't really care about the cost per clicks. I don't care about the cost per impressions. I care about how much money are we spending to actually book calls, and how many of those booked calls are qualified to make sales, right. So if we have 10 calls, and we spent $1,000, on the booking, then we spent $10,000, if I can turn those $10,000 into five people at 2750, I'm positive. If I'm if I turn them into four, then I'm breakeven. And but I understand that I have I have more money on the recurring now where it's a problem is if I can't match the exact same quality next month, because now I'm negative because mine is based off recurring, just like an agency is based off recurring. So if I was to do an agency thing, which we have an agency, I would say, Hey, I'm willing to spend $2500 in application, because I'm charging minimum $5,000. So you do the math there. And then you have to make sure though, like, hey, and this is a minimum three month contract. So then you can kind of figure out your numbers through that. But your costs for applications is irrelevant. Then you then you get into type stuff is like blended ROAS. So like well, if you look at this and our Instagram, it actually even goes lower, it doesn't go lower, because you still spent the 10 K, you still got 10 that's still the same real number because when I look at it, I look at it as profit and loss, not like vanity statistical data. statistical data shows me like what ads are converting what makes sense my clicks are doing well on this ad, or my you know, impressions of put here. But my clicks are not here. That's statistical data relevant to like how to create new ads and new campaigns and new angles. But at the end of the day, I have to manage the books and look at the profit and loss if I'm paying too much, or if I'm not paying enough, I'm not scaling appropriately. And if I'm paying too much, I have to find a way to make up that revenue, maybe it's an email list drop or something so I can continue. I'm pretty okay right now with what we're doing on breaking even with with our numbers because they are recurring. And we have an email list. And then I know that we do preview events and that that adds up and stuff like that. But you know, not to get too technical, but then you have people don't think about this, right? But then they have like, costs of employees and team members and events and software. And that all ends up adding up. So you, you're thinking like, Oh, I'm balling. But then you do the numbers. And you're like, well, an affiliate here and a thing here and a thing here. Hey, guys, we made 10 K over the 100. Because we weren't managing how much it's costing us to bring these people in.
No 100% Yeah, I love it. Real talk real talk with Los Silva. No, I mean, it's, it's super important. I know with with, with our high ticket, high ticket funnels that I work on for me, with us scaling the way that we are and growing quickly, to me last seven days numbers is kind of all that I can handle. So I'm always gonna last seven days media, last seven days first payment, or cash collected. And all that I care about is just cash flowing that and growing as fast as possible, as long as I cashflow that, and when we're growing, it might not cashflow a week, but then the next week it does the next week, it then it falls back out. But as long as almost every week, that's cash flowing. That's all that I care about. Because I know again, the recurring is going to take care of itself. And it's just stacking and building.
Yeah, I also look at cash collected per week, per month. And then annualized. I look at annualized almost as like a joke, like a gift because it's annualized. But it's like today our numbers mean this specifically, right? Because you'll talk to them a lot. They'll be like, oh, but we made $250,000. I'm like no, we didn't know we didn't we made right. Like it's annualized that that much money. And that's cool. And it's real. And we have contracts, but actual in the bank cash collected, we made this much money. That's how much we have to have the conversation about because you can get into a problem with people where they're like, dude, we made 100 k this month on our agency, like, well, we made $25,000 collected and something can go wrong, or this can go wrong, or you think you'd have more leeway on ads. And that's not true. Now you're screwing yourself because you're thinking big boy stuff, when it's like the big boy stuff is the little bitty numbers that you're there you're keeping How do I keep more? Maybe you can figure out how to measure like, you know what? It would be good to maybe have instead of like, I could do this instead of 2750. I could be like, Listen, it's $5,000. And then it's this much I can collect more upfront will. The reason I don't do it is because I annualized $25,000, down and 20 $200 a month, it's not a big enough pull for them to be like, Oh, that's a good move. But it's an easier scale actually go 2750 because the five hurts the 2750 is kind of irrelevant. And at annualised the 2200 still hurts him as much as the 2750. So those are little micro things that you have to pay attention to, to make sure that your price point makes sense. The other reason we did the price point at that cost is because a shitty assistant I don't know if I can curse, but a bad assistant is going to be $3,000 a month. So for the cost of Yes. And assistant, you get all these things for us. You know what I mean? And we work with you know, I understand 2750 can be expensive, but not if you're talking to real businesses. And so it's just it's just half of one decent employee.
Joe Troyer 18:23
Yep. No, for sure. I love the I love that the anchoring the price point to the employee is is really, really smart.
Yeah, we're doing that with everything. Now we have me and Kent Lampson operations thing. And it's $10,000. And they're like, why it's the cost of one month of a real COO for the whole year, you know, and they're like, what can someone get for the cost of this? It's the same if you look at it on little things, right? People will say, for the cost of less than a Starbucks, because you can center them up. I buy Starbucks, yeah, I could just do this. Instead, it's we're doing it the same thing. We're just charging, you know, we're working with different stuff. If you want if you have an agency, and your your price was 5K, and we've listened for a price less than hiring someone that you're gonna have to train and you don't even have time to train them. You're getting an actual whole team. How does that sense, makes total sense.
Joe Troyer 19:12
Yep. And we're experts in what to do, and in you're niche. You've already done it.
Joe Troyer 19:19
Yeah, makes perfect sense. Cool, man. So moving on a little bit. Transitioning. I know that working with influencers, you ended up creating this C4 method. Can you talk a little bit about what the heck that is and why it's important?
Yeah. So influencers kind of made me realize basically, the reason I created it is because we were making so much money with some of them and sending them $100,000 a month checks just for them, that they stopped working or going to Hawaii, they're doing this and that I was like, man, like we still need content. So I was like, You know what, out of spite, because I'm kind of weird like that. I was like, I'm just going to become an influencer and prove to these guys that it's not a big deal. That way. It also help me when I sell people like listen, I'm an influencer too. It's not that crazy. And so I created this method. It's c four, which stands for content, conversations, community and conversions. And this works really, really well. If you're doing high ticket it also works for e commerce. But for high ticket, let's talk about that. More. Really, content is something you need to be creating in everything like I've been doing a lot of stuff right now on clubhouse, I'm doing Tick tock, I'm driving all that into my Instagram, and they're seeing more content you get to know like, trust me, it's the influencer angle right with everyone. You're an influencer, because you're your Creator, you're creating content. Then I take that into conversations. I move people from that into DMS, I use opportunities inside of Instagram, such as like polls and questions and I reach out to people Hey, I saw you voted in my poll. Hey, reach back out. Like if you're interested in this and this, it starts the conversation. If they're not ready to engage into an application or something, I move them into a community, whether it's a close friends group on Instagram, it's the little green thing. Or you can move into a Facebook group email list, whatever the case, it's a community nonetheless, right? Give me your cell phone number you there's actually a texting tool now called community, which is just texting, right? And so if you have all those three things, you're consistently giving content, you're having communication with people communication is the new form of currency. Nowadays, everyone wants to talk everyone wants to see, it's less like just buy this here. It is like why Who are you? Like, why should I do it? Right? So you have constant communication. If you build a community, you have a rabid amount of the same people in the same space giving you testimonials showing results like really verifying and edifying you. And then conversions is just easy. Like, you don't have to worry about it. Because you've put all the time in into these three buckets, that when you're ready to make a sale, people are ready to engage with you and sell or apply to work with your stuff. They already know you. The sales calls go from like an hour of like fake discovery or like, tell me why this is hard for you. And what would this mean to your life? You know what it is? This is what it is, is how much it costs. You ready to go? I'm ready to go, bro, let's let's do this.
Joe Troyer 21:59
Perfect. So if somebody is running a traditional, let's say like book a call funnel, typical application funnel right now, and they want to add on the C4 method, but what what does that actually look like.
So you would run traffic. And then you would also there's a few things you can do. One of them could be moving people from traffic to if they're not opting in, or they're not applying moving them into Instagram to engage with you. from Instagram, you start those conversations on dm, you can make a feed post, they are looking for five entrepreneurs that want to scale their ads, here's some results you do a slide post on. So when they slide, they see some results, either video testimonials or screenshots of results. And then you have conversations with them. Again, if they're like, I'm not that interested. Phase Three, you move them into a community and you just give them content, you don't sell anything, you don't pitch you just do free free trainings like this and just free content, free value, even posting memes and stuff. And then from there on, you can retarget all those people to come back to an application with what I would do is I would make a landing page of just my YouTube content. And at the bottom of book a call, why not a whole landing page and the whole there you already see if you already signed you already saw my lander, you already saw my stuff, you already know it. So I don't need to trick you or convince you again to like this is some magical offer. You get it. Here's more content from me. And there's a booking page at the bottom to try to get you to reapply and convert.
Joe Troyer 23:25
Love it. Yep. So push them to a platform, get them to engage, build the conversation. If they're ready to buy, push them into a sales call or sell them if not community long term follow up lots of value. And that means ultimately, conversion becomes simple.
And understand that no one's ready to buy. That's just true. mathematically speaking, no one's ready to buy, you know, we just did an event here in person and we had people be like, dude, I've been following you for three years, two years, three months. Like you got it, you got to convince them that like this, you're the solution. You know, our average, we know that like on average, people need to engage with us for three to six months to really go into it. So that what that means is I got to put my time into content. I got to get more stuff out. I got to spend more money on retargeting, I just got to get more things for free. And a lot of people think that that's flawed, but like, I'll teach you everything for free. Because the difference between you could have it all for free. You could have all of our logins you too, but you want to get on a call, you want to get a specific answer a specific question. That's what you're actually paying for in training, right? You're paying for like the time collapse of like, Oh, no, no, do this, this this, oh, no, don't buy that. Buy this. Like that alone is worth the money. And people know that. And that's why, you know, I would suggest people moving forward try to give as much as they can for free because there are no secrets. What there are situations, and every situation is different. That's why you need to get on a phone call.
Joe Troyer 24:47
So uncertainty, right? When somebody like they've had it, right, and you're the guy that that added all this value, right? It's like man, I gotta go to Los because he's helped me he's added all the value and I know that Los can answer these questions, right? He could solve this helped me get there much faster. So I agree. Yeah, ones are going to be right for the prospect and try to instead of the opposite, right. So that makes 100% time. So I'm curious, most you, have worked with, probably more people than I know, in high ticket man, probably more than anybody else, right? selling all kinds of different stuff. What makes or breaks? The high ticket offers? Like, what's the, what's the 8020? of like, yes, this works or no, it doesn't like you need to rethink your offer.
Um, it is it is the person, the personality, the way that they engage with people, the content that is consistent, and the level of what I call like masochism that you're willing to endure, right? A lot of people have have a big offer, they're big, famous, and they can I can make 200,000 off Instagram without having to spend ads, you start pouring a couple bucks on ads, and it doesn't work. They're like, Oh, this doesn't work. Like No, you're not the ads is the world, right? Like, it's like, I can go to your house. And I know everyone in your family, I can knock on your neighbor's house. And they'll call the cops. Like it's, it's like, well, but it's closest its neighborhood, it's the same thing. It's not the same thing. Like you're going to the universe, the universe doesn't know who you are, man, as much as you think you're famous. None of us are famous, like none of us are famous in any way. Right? And what and it'll be proven to you when you start spending money on ads, right. And so if you're willing to endure understanding and getting the data and taking it slower, you will have success faster. And the people that I've seen have success faster. Like we have a buddy of mine, who we were partners on this brand. Now, we took it from zero to 1.8 in two months. It's just because he has a dynamic tai lopez level personality, like the dude produces more content that you'll ever do, he will outwork you on it flat out like point blank, he knows who he's talking to, he'll cater to that particular audience, he'll do all the he knows he is an actor in that particular situation. And that especial like, that's I'm not as good as that you're not like that's really, really crazy to do it. And I'm not willing to dive in the way he's wanting to dive in and like, be so crazy and sometimes flashy. And this and that, like, have like a more subdued personality in some ways, you know. And so and that's, that's important, that's really really important, the bigger personality, but like really giving also content and value and being right about it, the faster you're going to get results. And the more you you're willing to endure, you know, like with, with, Kent, we, we took three months, and we spent, we lost money almost broke even but lost, like almost $300,000 trying to get one offer to work. And now it's working. And it worked for a year. And then we had to pivot into a new style offer, which works faster, because we had acquired a similar style audience at that point. But that's the other thing like know when to pivot, no one to test and always be trying to beat your controls. Because people coast, they're like, Oh, this is my vibe, I'm winning, I'm rich, like this is going to be it forever, it's going to be until it's not and then you're gonna have to change it. So you have to also think, like the people that I work with, that have this longevity of business, like make a lot of money in the long term, and sometimes even faster. The people who I work with that have this like quick hit, like drug money type thing, like like dopamine, like boom, it's, it's, it's in and out. And it lasts sometimes weeks, sometimes months, sometimes a year. But it's that they're doing a new thing now and a new thing instead of like thinking like, how do I build a brand, so I don't have to ever do this thing again. And that's really where I've been spending a lot of my time lately. It's just like, how do I just do all this stuff and build this audience and be like, hey, I've got more for you, but not have to like build new offers new opportunities, new tricks, and hacks and stuff. Because I'm not that smart. I have like a pretty particular set of strategies. And that's kind of it and that I just want to talk about that kind of like Frank Kern and Frank Kern talked the same thing for 10 years. And people are like, man, he says the same thing. Like Yeah, it works. And it still works. He's just consistent with that
Joe Troyer 28:57
Yeah, man. That's awesome. Awesome. Brother. I got one more question to wrap it up. This has been awesome. It's been fun just hanging it out. It's been like, we're sitting across the table from each other, just shooting the shit. So it's been a fun one. So at the end of every podcast episode, I always ask instead of like, every podcast says, like, Hey, what's your favorite three books, Lowe's, I do something a little different. I say like looking at your business now? Not six months ago, not six years ago, like looking at it now. What books do you think has made the biggest impact on the way that you guys are doing business attacking business? Right now?
It's not a business book. It's it's by this guy, Frederick Dodson. And it's called levels of energy.
Joe Troyer 29:43
Okay, tell us what that means. What is levels of energy?
It's a book about, like, every person at every stage has like a certain level of energy, like, like level zero is like crackheads like level 100 is like people that are pissed off like level 500 is like people that are super good at like a lot of things. So I think that at this point, what we're trying to do, like we don't need another marketing book, we need to understand the problems that are happening are mindset problems and ego problems and like energy problems almost. And I know that sounds woke. And I'm not really a woke dude. But like, I can understand, like, it's made me be empathetic. And listen, it helps in leadership when you know, like, Oh, dude, he's home. He's here right now, probably not a good time to talk about this, this is happening, probably not a good time to bring this up. This is in a great mood. Let's leverage that to move over here. This is a good sales call. Or this is a bad sales call based off like the level of this person's energy. So it really kind of like it's almost a sales psychology book with, like, hiding inside of like, wokeness. So but it really helps you promote even for yourself, you can be like, man, like, not killing it today. What's going on? Like, my energy level is a little down. What do I need to do? Bring it back up? Like, how can I practice being grateful? Like I've been doing a lot of like, thoughtfulness and like being grateful, just like when I'm when I'm, like, stressed out, I'm like, God, we could go faster, I go back, and I'm like, man, I can't even believe I'm here. It's crazy. Why am I here? What are the results that have gotten me here? Like, okay, I feel really good. Tomorrow is always a better day and stuff like that. So I would recommend that book for people. And then another book, which again, is not a not a business book, but it's called breathe, and just teaches you how to breathe again to like, calm your central nervous system, do stuff like that, like, you know, we run a lot of businesses, now we spend a lot of money on ads, we're doing a lot of stuff. And I've never been more chill. Like I don't we don't work on Fridays, I leave two to three times a week at like, three o'clock or 230. And like the businesses are growing, and it's because like, I am not force forcing everything anymore. We're very calm on our goals or missions or visions where we're going. And it's made people inadvertently without me forcing it move into their next place, give themselves more confidence, understand, like when to have better conversations, how better meetings and stuff like that. So I think it's a really good book to like help businesses go to the next level.
Joe Troyer 32:01
That's awesome, man. Two great recommendations will definitely I've read the second but not the first, we'll definitely dive into that first one. That sounds good. If somebody wants to connect with you, personally, maybe on social what's the best place for that?
You don't do this before you gotta go to Los Hustle on Insta.
Joe Troyer 32:19
Alright, where's it what's the rest of the rest of the method? You got to lay it out? Then you
just go gonna just go say hi at Los Hustle and you'll see the rest.
Joe Troyer 32:30
Alright, guys, you heard it here. Los, man, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. We'll make sure we go back here in the future.
Awesome, man. I'll talk to you soon.
Joe Troyer 32:37
See you everybody.