Joe Troyer 0:42
Hey guys, Joe Troyer here and welcome to another episode of show me Tim's nuggets. No, I'm just kidding. Show me Joe Troyer nuggets. I mean, show me the nuggets, guys. I'm excited to be here with with longtime client and friend, none other than Tim McGarvey. Welcome to the show, brother.
Tim McGarvey 1:01
Thank you, Joe, I am so happy to be here. I cannot wait to dig into reputation marketing.
Joe Troyer 1:08
So man, you and I go way back way, way, way back. And you've been around a long time. And I'm super excited to have you on the show. Because I know the impact and the value that you give to your clients. And I know the aha moments and the nuggets that you can share with the audience, man. So when we were thinking about guests that we wanted to have come on and really talk about reputation. I was like, hey, we need to reach out to Tim so super excited to have you on here, man. Oh, thank you. So um, Tim, but let's jump back and talk about how you ended up getting in this crazy agency marketing world as we know it today.
Tim McGarvey 1:45
Yeah. You know, it's an interesting question to think about it go all the way back. You know, I came to New York City. Yeah, I went to art school, I studied graphic design, came to New York City in the late 80s. And I was hauling my portfolio around in Soho, and Chelsea looking for freelance work. And at the time, I was living in Philly. And I was commuting back and forth every day. And I started picking up freelance jobs. And then you know, the whole commute on Amtrak and everything was just too much.
So I decided to move here. So I moved to Manhattan and started doing illustration and design work. And we're, you know, we're going back to the age of the modem. Right. So the modem was brand new, and it was exciting. And I moved into an apartment right on top of the, the fastest internet in Manhattan on the west side. So I was sitting on top of it, and just my dial up modem was so crazy fast. HTML was the thing was brand new. I was building websites. And you know, there wasn't even any way to preview them except for the browser. This is before Dreamweaver, Photoshop was new illustrator was new. Front Page. Yes. Right. That's it. That's it. Exactly.
I went back. And I looked that up today, just thinking about that. Wow, it seems like not that long ago. But you know, it was and having to wait for those blinking lights on AOL to connect. Yeah, all right. That's it. So you know, that was that would have been like, I guess, like the early 90s, or, you know, publishing these websites and HTML. WordPress came out, I don't know, like a couple years later. So WordPress was new. Now, instead of doing everything by hand, everything was digital Illustrator, Photoshop, After Effects came out in there, WordPress came out. So it was a very exciting time, all these digital tools. And somewhere in there, I think, I don't know if it was 2000, what year it was, but Google Ads came out.
And I remember seeing, like these weird little things on the right side of the screen, and they just, like, legit started popping up. And I was like, what is that what's like a Google ad. And I started doing work for medical agencies doing medical animation and medical illustration. And I didn't really know anything, I was completely ignorant about the ads. And I said, I'm just going to like, start on an you're gonna buy an ad. So I bought an ad for a couple 100 bucks. And in less than a week, I landed a job for like, $150,000. That's it that you like, how did I get started? That's it. Because I did it. I ran an ad. I didn't even know what it was. I just ran it ran a simple ad. Somebody called me on the phone with an unbelievable job. And so that's been my experience with digital marketing. That's how I got started, too.
Joe Troyer 4:45
I'm curious when you think about reputation marketing, like what do you think about what does that mean to you? When I say those words reputation management or reputation marketing? What's that mean?
Tim McGarvey 4:54
Well, there's, I mean, there's like two sides to it. There's the technical part of this, like how do we do it and There's the other part of it, like, what the heck is it? Right? And what's really interesting is in the last several years, I've had several people reach out to me like recognizable names. And say like, we need help. We looked you up online, we we found like you and like reputation marketing, right, like, so we need to help with our reputation. And so the like, literally, literally mean their personality, the reputation.
And the so that's kind of something that when we talk about, like the technical part or reputation, right, we'll kind of skip over that. But this is about like the effect. Yeah, for sure. It gets generated. And, you know, lots of times clients say, Well, you know, I know all about reputation marketing. But when I look up that person, I find all kinds of bizarre stuff. I find divorce things, I find legal things and like, they're not really like looking for themselves. They're like, well know all about it. But like, I found like, court filings from 10 years ago, and like, this is some ugly stuff. Right?
So that's as far as the concept of what it is. It's really controlling what people find about you online first. Yep. Right. If you've got bad stuff, they're going to they're going to find bad stuff, maybe eventually. But what did they see first? And what impact does that have? And really, for a business, right? We want what people define first are the fantastic results that our clients and our businesses provide to their customers that transforms their lives. And every client that I've ever had they that's what they say that they want to do. No one's ever said, No, kind of want to do an okay job.
They like know, when you really talk to them. They know the services that we offer, what we do change people's lives. Great. Those are the stories. That's what we want people to find, we want to help business owners create a story that attracts people to the business. And it generates more income, right? It's that system. It's that loop, right? Yeah. And we get when we get that loop working, everything else works.
So when I think about it, sorry, I'm going on here. But when I think about reputation, like that's what I think about the big picture, how it transforms. And then there's the technical part of it, which is usually what people talk about, when you hear the phrase reputation marketing, right? It usually means about how to get reviews, like how to manage it, you know, how to market it how to syndicated or whatever you do, like three, three parts to that. I go, like, I'm thinking like, bigger concept.
Joe Troyer 7:47
Yeah, I mean, for me, I say, and I agree with you. I think like for me, when I first think about it, it's like, let's, let's control the narrative about a brand when a consumer looks it up, right, like you, as a business owner, have that opportunity. And as an agency owner, like we have the opportunity to help businesses portray that message, however we want, right to guide that message, right, we can't get down to the exact detail, but we can help guide that message and shape that message.
And that's a beautiful thing. When I think about kind of then the next kind of order of consequence, I think about like, I want to be the brand, or I want my clients to be the brand that's like the undisputed best in that marketplace. Because if I can, my marketing doesn't have to be so great. And my clients don't have to spend near as much money to get the same outcome. Right as well. Can you talk about your your experience or your thoughts with that,
Tim McGarvey 8:39
at the core of helping clients, like generating 1000s of calls, literally 1000s of calls from Google Maps, and with their reputation together, helping clients generate from negative losing their house losing their car, losing all their property, physical property, right, to generating, you know, seven figures, and to explain it, like it's so simple. And you're like, Well, yeah, that's, that's obvious, but it's not.
Because then when you when you talk to the business owner about it, like they're all They're all kinds of barriers, and it's not that easy. And like that, to have that conversation. But when you can change it and you can control it, and you have the right reviews, you have the right information and the right message that goes out. Right. It's the most powerful thing when you have any and it makes everything else work. When you have the reputation kicking and it's firing on all cylinders and you look up the business and the first page that comes up is everything that you want on there. Right you have your reviews on Facebook, you have you have everything on Twitter, you have YouTube, you have the knowledge panel.
All of the indications that you see is that this business is the industry leader. Everything works. You put paperclip on top of that paperclip works, right? You want to go over new one and run you know, Facebook, you know, video ads, you want to do retargeting like, that all works. However, without it, and you start running Pay Per Click ads, the ads are crazy, insanely expensive to share, right? Like, it's, it's through the roof, right, you can get, you know, 10 100 or 20 leads, sometimes for a couple grand a month with pay per click, when you have a reputation, and everything else is flowing, pay per click is cheaper, everything's cheaper.
And there's there's less stress on the business. Right. And that's, that's one thing that I see for sure, as a marketer, that I want to put my clients in a situation where it's less stressful for me, and it's less stressful for them as far as like their expense. So I want them to see that, like the return that they're getting the cost per call for someone calling them is a fraction of it's a fraction of what they have been paying or what they expect to pay. Yeah, for
Joe Troyer 11:11
sure. Yeah, I completely agree with you reputation is is a magnifier for sure. It's a it's a multiplier force multiplier, if you will. And if you can build that reputation, it's going to impact you know, everything else. I think a great example of that is I'm going to ask you, because you've had so much experience ranking in Google Maps, have you been able to rank in Google Maps without reviews? And then been able to add reviews? And what's the correlation or the impact of ranking in the three pack with reviews or without reviews? In your experience?
Tim McGarvey 11:43
Well, I mean, it depends on the competition, really, it depends on what everybody else is doing. It also largely depends on the size of the market, right? The bigger the market is right? The more factors weigh in on the on the maps, if we're talking about like a general population. For, you know, an industry that's immediately recognizable, like home, something in home services, roofing, H, fac, water damage, I'm heavily into weight loss, chiropractic, all of these things you immediately recognize like this, if it's in some if it's in a town of 100,000 or less, right?
The reviews don't necessarily affect the trip, the three pack ranking, but I'm gonna say like in the markets where clients are making seven figures, right? It's a lot more competitive. You just have to have it. It's not even like, Can I get in there without it? No, you can't? You gotta have it, you know, it's mandatory. It's like, top three, one of the top three signals, I would say that like to get in there and stay in there.
Joe Troyer 12:52
I agree. Yeah, I mean, I've seen personally with some sites, helping clients that, like I've been able to get in the three pack, right. But if they didn't have reviews, and it used to be a strategy that I didn't really help people with, if they didn't have the reviews to back it up, I could get them in the three pack, but it'd be really hard for me to be able to stay in the three pack. But also, they wouldn't actually get that many leads if they weren't dominant in terms of their reputation, right? If they have the least amount of reviews and the worst overall score, just because you get there doesn't mean that all of a sudden, you know, the phone calls are just going to start ringing off the hook.
Tim McGarvey 13:28
Right. Right. There's there's so much emphasis now on the market and clients understand to a point that you need SEO. Yeah. Right. And they're like, Yeah, we got to rank we got to rank we gotta rank. Guess what, right? You got to have the reviews. It doesn't matter, like you show up on on the first page and people look you up and you don't have reduced none. I guess we'll get into this, but not just any reviews.
For sure. I like this guy. That's No. Great office, like come here all the time. No, five stars. No, we're not talking. Not talking about that. Right? Yeah. So like SEO isn't going to save you. If you're really in an area where you want to make a good living, right? It's not gonna save you. It's a combination of things and you got to start with gotta start with a reputation. Now I don't have any indication necessarily SEO is easier because you you have great reviews. But what's that?
Joe Troyer 14:32
I believe it is. Really, I think that the the click through rate manipulation, we'll call it whether whether your your count of reviews as a factor or your click through rate being manipulated because you have better reviews than everybody else. One of those as a factor, right? And if I have more reviews, and I'm in the fourth spot, I'll end up climbing to the top three, just because I have better reviews than the people in the verse three, right, and it doesn't mean I'll always be number one, but I will outrank and all hedge myself into the three pack just with more reviews.
Tim McGarvey 15:08
So we've done a lot of done a lot of testing. And I can say like definitely that genuine reviews from real customers has crazy weight, for sure that so with the business like to radically change image, it only takes about 10 legitimate reviews could only sometimes six. And I have seen some clients outrank businesses that have like 100 reviews. So I guess there are other there are other factors like involved in that as well, it's not that easy. And it's certainly not something that I that I ever, like, promise anybody, like, you can get 10 reviews and like your stars are going to change. No, but it's a really, it's a really good thing. Yeah, for sure.
Joe Troyer 16:00
100%. Yeah. So when you talk with a client that has a bad reputation, are you going to try to fix the reputation? First, you're going to sell them on a whole marketing pack with that, first, tell me how you think about working with a client that either has a bad reputation, or just not much of a reputation, right in the industry? They looking good no matter what either it's bad, or they just aren't even being noticed.
Tim McGarvey 16:27
All right, well, I that I see them as as two distinct, like, we're gonna separate them for for just a minute, because I have a lot of opinions, and a lot of like, specific experience with no reviews, and bad reviews. So I would say that having a reputation system like change is three things for a business, what are the changes three things, it changes things for the business owner, for the people in the business, and for their customers, right. And so we're usually just focused on like what we see, I'd like to surface level and what that is.
But when we have like the reputation that's actually like firing, and it's actually working for business, the business owner is starting to see the good reviews that come in, right. And that changes the experience for the business owner too. And it kind of in some way, like reinforces what they already know. Same as for the people in the business, when the reviews come in, and people are commenting on the staff, hey, like, you know, the staff is really great, like everything that's like happening at the front desk. And customers see this as well. And so it affects all three of those things.
Now, when the business has like bad reviews, right, and the business owner doesn't necessarily know, right, that's an indication that the business owners disconnected from the business in, you know, in some way. And when I deal with a business that has bad reviews, and that in that situation, I used to seek them out. I don't seek them out anymore. Somebody has bad reviews, like they need to ask me to help them. Gotcha. Right. And that, and it wasn't that way before, I did just exclusively look for people with bad reviews. But what I just said about the business owner being disconnected in some way from the business, or there's a significant problem in the business that's generating those bad reviews, right.
And it's usually kind of both of those things. Sometimes a business owner knows. But they're also getting hammered all the time every day. Yep. Because I have all the sites for clients. And occasionally clients do get bad reviews. And I see what happens, like name brand companies, and every other marketing consultant is all over this, hammering them with emails about the bad review. So the only way that the business owner doesn't know that what's happening with that is if they're not connected with the email and the communication in their business, yep.
They're out there outside of that. So as a consultant coming in to help them with their reviews, the first thing we have to do is we have got to get everybody connected, right? So we have to connect everybody so that when when they get a bad review that everyone knows, and then understand, like, what's happening in the business, and then the majority of time that there's bad reviews, right? There is some sort of disparity between the business owner and the people in the business. So that's a quagmire to get into to understand what's happening, and to try to fix that. Now, I have a couple of clients like early on that I pursued that had bad reviews.
And I was really surprised about how much information that I learned and how I was able to help the businesses. An example of that would be He, I found it. I'm trying to be very general, I don't know who was, who would listen to the call, but I did find a business that had, you know, an onslaught of really bad reviews. And I thought, well, let me reach out to them. So the business owner did reply, send them a postcard, I did hear back, and so started working together to investigate, like, so you know, how do we create a review system and, and the whole thing and what's going on.
And I took all of their reviews, and just just copied them and pasted them into a word cloud, just to understand from a really high level. So what's the summary that's going on here? And words that popped out were drug abuse, alcoholism and racism.
Tim McGarvey 20:46
So those are the words that we're emphasizing. They were mentioned the most, like, what the heck, like, how's that possible? So I remember I went back and I said, Hey, like, so we did, you know, this whole analysis and found something interesting from this word cloud. They said, That can't be possible. We're a family company, this is so offensive, we're done. All right, ended. Okay, not a client anymore.
A couple months later, I got an email, still not a client, I got an email from the owner saying, turns out, one of our vPS was had series of problems. And we flush that out, just by the review system, looking at looking at all the reviews, multimillion dollar company, and all of their reviews, and everything in the company turned around. So as far as like how powerful it is, and how significant it is, like, for me, that was like a turnaround for me where I said, Well, I think I've kind of underestimated this a little bit. As far as how powerful this is, when we put this into play.
We put this into play, like stuff that's going to come out like we may not like no one may really expect it. Some things may be new, it could be new information, or it may not be there was an someone else that asked for an audit of their business. When I did the same thing. And I went in and I didn't know anyone in the business did the same whole thing with their reviews and all that. And I said, a wild guess.
But I think that like somebody have working for you is like really depressed. And because I see all of this, and there seems to be communication with patients that isn't positive. They did. So they had somebody that was answering their phone that was struggling with depression, and they had struggled with depression a long time to sit look looks like you guys, maybe you need to make a change and who's answering your phone. And simply by making a change, and who's answering their phone reviews improved, and the business came back to life. And that was from one person. So both of these were from like, from one person now.
And people in the business knew why they weren't able like to say for whatever reason, like people couldn't say like, Hey, you know, woman that we have on the phone is clinically depressed, you know, struggling with all this, we need to get her off the phone. So from the outside, came in and said, Hey, this is what I see. And like seems kind of crazy. But here it is. Get somebody needs help. They did. So they made that change. And I'm like so this is really powerful. And it goes beyond just getting 10, five star reviews to Google.
Joe Troyer 23:28
It's the underlying the underlying issues, right? That if you don't fix them aren't really going to get the client the end result. And that's one of the things I really like about UTM is that it's all about how do I get my client that end result, right? Like, whether it's getting them to 10 reviews, or it's figuring out them the problem that's going to make them you know, get 10 reviews very quickly, because you help them identify and spot and fix integration.
Tim McGarvey 23:55
I mean, that's not fun. Those meetings weren't fun, you realize that people need jobs and whatever was going on. And just that that tension, especially with the first client, and it ended that day, and I got that email, but I've never spoken to them again. And I thought we were gonna, like do something really great. We did do something good that turned things around, but it just didn't involve me. Yeah.
And but honestly, like, big picture, like I'm okay with that. Like to go in and to go in and see that like for me that says like, alright, I can I can help people, I can help them in ways that I wasn't really thinking before. But I do think now. So when I go into a business now, absolutely. Yeah, I look for those things. And Are there signs that people here in positions of influence, like sending sending emails or answering the phone? Like how are they what's their mindset? Are they like, Are they positive?
Joe Troyer 24:51
Yeah. I love that like solving the problem behind the problem. And then, you know, you said to recap before that, you know, making sure are that the people that are supposed to be getting the messaging, you know, are the people that are supposed to be seeing the reviews, the whoever the management is, whoever the owners are, that they're no longer disconnected, that they're seeing what's happening so that their eyes are open to it. What do you think are the other, you know, kind of biggest things you see businesses and even agencies, right? Doing wrong, or you think incorrectly when it comes to? Reputation?
Tim McGarvey 25:28
Sure, right. Because of like the number of sites and the number of emails that come in, like I do, see, well, I see all the communication, like the calls, if I review the calls, like I hear the calls, but mostly, like, see all the emails, and a lot of them are like, exactly. They're not quite carbon copy, although some of them are, but a lot of them have some of the same things like in common. And I don't want to like I don't want to be like, too specific, you know, kind of in a way, but I'll just say that, I really I take it personally, as far as like, establishing relationships with clients based on integrity. Right? Who I am, right? I'm, I am not a video editor that has a team that has open spots of production this week.
Joe Troyer 26:22
It's not who I am. So you're not going to say that is what you're saying?
Tim McGarvey 26:26
No, I'm not going to say that, like, who am I? What do I do?
Joe Troyer 26:29
Right, that posture?
Tim McGarvey 26:31
No, and I. So I understand making a quick sale, I understand making a fast sale, but there's the whole this whole idea that like to be successful as an as an agency and to get clients that we need to get 100 clients, right? And we need to like, how are we going to do that we need to get 100 clients, and part of that is like, let's let's just roll this out and start selling these videos. And quite a few clients, or prospects that I talked to have bought all this stuff. Right? And clients are not all idiots forever, right? They educate themselves. I like that last part forever. educate themselves, when they get that review. And that review video shows up on YouTube.
And it has 32 reviews, you know who 30 of those reviews. 30 of those views are? Yeah, clients and they're watching. And when the video ends, like what happens? This is shocking to me. Like what happens when the video ends? Guess what plays next? A video just like it for a dentist? Yeah. Right. And so the what does the business owner think that? And I've had them ask me like, What is this? Like? What is that? And I know that it's like, well, that's not a great idea. Right? So and it's not done by someone that fully understands, like how you solve that problem, right?
They just simply didn't make a channel and put that video in a channel with all their other stuff and title it properly and put in 15 minutes of work so that when the video is done playing, it doesn't jump to that same spokesperson model on another video, or they just haven't really thought about what's my customer experience? Right? So what is what is the customer experience?
So from the get go, reaching out and contacting people? Right? I'm timid, timid goarmy.com. You look up Tim at Tim garvey.com. Guess who you find? That's me. Yep, that's, that's my email. Or it's some variation of that. When you look that up, like you find me, what do I do? I help businesses with their reputation. And I'm what am I emailing you about, I'm emailing you about XYZ services, or whatever that is.
So there's some consistency there. And as far as like looking up, you know, the fly by night, like these agencies that pop up. It really feels like we're just trying it out. There's not a commitment, right? Like commit to it, you're gonna, like, reach out to one of my clients about commercial, right? At least, at least represent yourself as a video production company, if that's what you're going to do.
My background is in video production, right? So when I read it, it says, like, we have our crew out and like you don't have a crew out, right? This is all I know what it is. Right? So and the business owner, some of them know what it is to not at first, but eventually they do. And so we have to start out with the idea that as we work with clients, and as we go along, they're going to educate themselves and they're going to get much smarter. And then if we do things that are inconsistent or incongruent, right, at some point, they're either going to come back and ask us about it. Or then the very least they're going to think, a little less of us and they're not going to trust us as much.
Joe Troyer 29:57
Just always going out with a marketing dangle. Right? Isn't the isn't the way to do things, right? People are gonna see through it either today or tomorrow,
Tim McGarvey 30:07
right? And even for like the the, for the marketer, right being compassion on on both sides for the marker that's trying to to get those 100 clients to pay them X amount of dollars. So they can do you know, XY and Z even for that person saying, like, What a miserable way to spend all your time where every month or two like you're changing, you're changing your the niche and what you're doing, changing the service that you're offering, and just constantly spinning, spinning, spinning, and wondering like, how come I'm not getting traction? How can like the business isn't growing and people aren't responding to me?
I mean, that's a miserable, that's a miserable existence, you say like, this is what I do. And this is this who I am and come find me. I'm on LinkedIn, come and find me. Right. And someone messages me on LinkedIn. I respond. Yeah. Right. So to take the time and to be a real person
Joe Troyer 31:06
on a persona. So as we're preparing for this podcast, one of the things you suggested would be worthwhile to chat about was discussing selling reputation and the problem with, quote, unquote, easy reputation sales. Do you think we we hit the nail on that one? Or did you have a different approach in mind?
Tim McGarvey 31:26
No, I mean, I think like, I kind of think that we did, and just like to summarize, that is like, you know, yeah, clients will take the easy, they will take the easy sale, and you can make, you know, the easy sale, but it's a short sale for yourself in the long run, because the clients don't care, right? You give them the stuff for $100, or whatever.
And when it doesn't work, and it doesn't help them with their business, they simply say, like, we thought it was gonna help us get business, but it didn't. So it's just over. So there's no conversation, they don't care who you are, and they're not going to buy other stuff from you, or it's going to be really hard because they're gonna think, just like those videos, they we paid that football, that hope for that block of videos, this is gonna be like, that is gonna be something different.
Joe Troyer 32:15
Yeah. Yeah, leave a good first impression, right? Leave a good taste in their mouth. There's, there's lots of, there's lots of things like that, like, at the end of the day, if you're not getting the client, whatever it is that they're expecting, you know, how are you going to build a stable business on that?
Tim McGarvey 32:32
It's just 100%. You know, one of the one of the common things that I hear from clients, when I talk to them about reviews, is that clients say, like, our customers just won't leave us reviews. Yep. So when I hear somebody say that, for me, that's like an immediate, we're going from driving 35 Down to five miles an hour, we got to slow this down. Yeah. Because when a business owner says our customers just won't leave us reviews, or we've asked them and they won't leave us reviews.
That's a huge problem. And the reason it's a problem is because the reason that no one's writing reviews that they won't leave reviews, is because their business, their life, or whatever it is, isn't getting changed. It's not being transformed. And when a business is doing transformative work, people can't wait to leave reviews. For sure. Right? I mean, so that's just, it's a huge thing. When somebody says, like, we can't get reviews, so we can't get reviews, because the business isn't serving its customers. And this is a huge, huge issue. So lots of people dismiss the reputation, or they try all these other surface things that don't really address changes that have to be made in the business.
Joe Troyer 33:56
Yep. I think a lot of people though, to like, they say like, Oh, we've tried that we just our customers won't leave reviews. But like, there's a big difference in how you ask. Right? And we all have have been asked something where we feel compelled to help somebody. We've all been asked something where like, Yeah, I'm not doing that. Right, like, and so I think that there's a lot of, you know, you have somebody come to your house, and they do a service for you. And they they tell you, like hey, I really need your help.
It just became apparent to me that we're really struggling with our Google reviews. And you know, if I didn't okay job for you, it would mean the world to me if you take two minutes and just leave a Google review, because my marketing team is telling me that it's really going to help us get busier and we're really struggling right now. That is very different than Hey, will you leave us a review.
Tim McGarvey 34:48
It is is an especially if when the team was on site and they were working, they understood. We need to figure out how to do 115% We have to go over the Top right now just finished the job and do an okay job, we got to do a great job. Right. And that opens because they actually did do something extraordinary. Right. And I've been asked to write reviews sometimes I'm like, yeah, no, like it was fine. But it wasn't great. Yeah. Right. But when some but when someone does way exceed my expectations, and if they asked me for review, Heck, yeah, I'm gonna write them a review. It's going to be great. Because they they clearly,
Joe Troyer 35:35
today, how hard is it in today's day and age to meet expectations, though, were to beat expectations. You show up on time you do what you say you're gonna do you clean up after yourself. You say, Please, and thank you, you make it a nice experience. And you ask, right with conviction for a review, you're gonna get a good review. I mean,
Tim McGarvey 35:55
do that. Yes. So yeah, I
Joe Troyer 35:58
completely agree with you, though. At the end of the day, you know, lots of business being done that, unfortunately, isn't, you know, isn't being done with integrity. And I think we can leave it at that.
Tim McGarvey 36:08
Yeah. Yeah. So as far as like the question about, like, the easy reviews are getting it. Yeah, that's, that's definitely it. If people aren't leaving reviews, it's because something's missing. I just have to figure out like, what is that? I work with a lot of medical practices. And it's very simple to solve. And that's usually just simply about listening, asking and listening. Right, just to interjecting a few things. How are you doing? Are things like how are things going and there's the back and forth doesn't always have to be with the doctor. Now, usually with support staff, so that when people come in, there's eye contact? And there's a moment that to have a conversation? And they feel known and remembered. That's it? For sure.
Joe Troyer 36:51
Yeah, I am addressing them. How are you today? Being friendly?
Tim McGarvey 36:56
Your person? Yes. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's it sounds it sounds really basic when we talk about it. Even like post pandemic now. Right? People are looking for connection. Really, really looking for some kind of like connection and and a moment of I remember you,
Joe Troyer 37:18
yeah, 100%? Yeah. So man, we've had a really good conversation. I want to zoom out for a second. Is there anything else important that you think we might have missed when talking about kind of reputation marketing or reputation management as a whole? Is there anything that we missed? You think we'd be doing the audience a disservice? Or anybody listening? Yeah,
Tim McGarvey 37:39
yes. I'm gonna say yes. And that is, how do you get a good review? Right, what is a good what's a good review? Right? And this is what I'm going to say. And I think, like, I think this is key. And when I started implementing this for clients, I saw like a significant change. So a review goes through the problem, the solution and the results, right. And we get people to write the kind of review that we want, by asking them the right questions.
Yep. Right. So we have to set up some type of a survey situation. And we have to walk them through what how we want them to answer we have to ask them the questions. And then they have to, to answer those questions to give us that feedback. And the idea that I see with a lot of businesses and they're like, well, we asked for a review, but like they didn't give it to us. Well, people don't know what to write. If you go if like, if you ask me right now like to to leave a review for you.
Yeah, I feel like I want to and I'm like, but about like what, like, how can I help you? Like, I want to help you, but about what like, what should we like, I'm lost? I've known you for so long? And I don't know. But when you ask somebody a question of like, what was happening that made you decide to schedule an appointment? Yep. Wait a minute, that's like, that's a condition. That's a specific, you know, your that is, you know, like, oh, well, that's easy. So you walk in through like five things. And then when they come down, now they gotta write a review.
They already know what the word what to write. Because they just answered the questions. And like, that's like a 300 to 300% change from just giving somebody a card saying, Would you leave us a review? You're like, hold on, we could send them to a forum and they can answer those questions. I know, that seems like like technical maybe, and you get it. But the majority of people that I talk to they say like that they just don't leave us reviews. Well, how do you get a review? When do you get a review? You ask them like the first time they come in? Or do you like get them the third time they come in?
Like what's what's the ark? The Ark, they gotta get them at the top of the Ark when they're like on top of the world, right? It's a good figure out the timing. So it's not always the best when they come in, and they're just leaving after they've had a root canal. Yeah. Or whatever. They've had something painful done. You don't want to ask them when they leave. Right? Yeah, you got to figure out what like, well, when's the right time, right. So that the problem the end, especially when they talk about how things are now, they say how things are now. So then we get the problem, the solution and the results.
So when we get the reviews, you have six reviews where people have gone through the problem solution results, and they've written it in their own words. And that's the stuff that's up on Google, six to 10 of those can radically change your business. Instead of like, I love the office, and I commend the people here are nice. I didn't say anything, right. But when they talked about like, when it first came in, like I'm so tired, I can hardly walk up and down the stairs, I had back surgery and after the back surgery, I gained 45 pounds. know
Joe Troyer 41:03
for sure the the reviews that are done in a format similar to that are like that, you know, can have a huge impact on meeting the customer where they're at right now write in when they're facing the problem that they're in now, right, and then them seeing the solution. And the result after is is huge for that future pacing, and ultimately is going to get a client to take action or a prospect to take action, right and to take that next step. And so a review isn't just a review, right? All all reviews aren't created equal.
Tim McGarvey 41:37
Right? I think about it, like helping the business find a story to tell, we all love stories, right? And when somebody writes a review like that, because through those steps, that's a story. And we can use that in a significant way to help the business like that's a story. And that people will see that and identify with that. Yes,
Joe Troyer 42:00
that's awesome, man, thank you for for sharing that. And glad we didn't end with without Thank you. I think it was last year, you came out with a book converting clicks into clients, would you tell everybody a little bit about that what it is and how they can get their hands on it?
Tim McGarvey 42:16
Sure, converting clicks into patients. So created the book is an after like talking to so many clients, a lot of them mostly weight loss. So the books focusing on is weight loss, and the myths or misconceptions that seem to be out there about how to market a practice on the internet. So this is a broad overview. It's not necessarily like a drill down blueprints of how to do all of these things. But if it just presents all in one place, and easy reference for so what do we do? What is how do we use email marketing? There's a big, big section there on reputation section about social and all this stuff. How do we use what is it? How do we use it? It's on Amazon. It's also on the clinic Marketing Group website. Either one of those places you can get it
Joe Troyer 43:12
perfect man and, and wrapping up. Instead of asking my guests what their favorite three books are, like, distill it down to the smallest action for me to take. Okay, all right, I was asked like, what's the one book right that you think's impact on on you or the way that you do business and why?
Tim McGarvey 43:34
All right, look at right here. You said one. Hey, man, one, you said one, and they're just gonna tell you like, it's so hard. So this isn't my one book. But I'm mentioning work the system. But that's not my book. The book, that book that I'm mentioning is called the Pumpkin Plan.
Joe Troyer 43:53
Yeah, we had Mike on the podcast,
Tim McGarvey 43:55
the Pumpkin Plan. And there was a section that oh, here we are. This one part here, page nine. All I'm gonna say is it says What Got You Here Won't Get You There. Right. And so the idea was that you got your business to a certain level. But what you did to get to that level isn't going to take you to the next level, for sure. Right. And reading the pumpkin Pumpkin Plan when I went through that. For me, he goes through the experience of getting talks about the experience of getting all of these high end clients spending a lot of money and kept asking himself how come we're not ahead?
How come we're not ahead? And the long hours that he's working and working and working and working and still saying yeah, but we know we're not getting ahead. So the idea in reading in reading this book, really, when I said I'm done with the animation studio. I love design. I love visual work. I love doing 3d animation. It ends. And it was, it was reading this book. And I said, my life is awful. My family life isn't great. What like what do I need to do? And so that's it. So there's only one book. People listening to say to read. Read the pumpkin planet. Pumpkin Plan at least three times. Yeah, it's
Joe Troyer 45:29
really good. It's, it's a fast read to I feel like I picked that thing up. And I don't think I said it down until it was over.
Tim McGarvey 45:36
It is right. It's it's, it's not it's not an arduous read. He gets to the points quickly and like you understand them. It was an easy decision, but hard to do as far as like. So what do I do next, like after I read it, but it was the book that I read. So I was trying to have all these books trying to figure out like, which like the one book and I'm like, alright, what book did I read? And I did I make a change. I've read a lot of books, and I don't make changes.
I read that book. And I said, that's done. I gotta I have to close the door on that. Because that's not going to get me where I need to go in my life. I was sleeping in my office. So he talks in this in the book, as well as like, he was sleeping in the office and hiring more and more people. All these like all these people working and they're going home and I'm sleeping in the office. So there it is Pumpkin Plan.
Joe Troyer 46:28
That's awesome, man. So if somebody wants to reach out to you personally, Tim, where should that be on your website? Maybe LinkedIn, Instagram, where you mostly
Tim McGarvey 46:35
know what the website is easiest. I'm Tim at Tim mccarthy.com.
Joe Troyer 46:40
Awesome, brother. Thank you for coming on. Man. Thank you for dropping all your knowledge. You've been in this game for a long time even longer. I think that I have. You've been able to get your clients some amazing results generate a boatload of leads and revenue for them in this industry. And I'm sure people are gonna love this episode. Thank you. Thank you. This is so much fun. See everybody.
