Joe: 00:00:00 Hey everybody, it's Joe Troyer from digital triggers and show me the nuggets. And today I have on as usual a very special guest, Daniel Danes-Hutt and folks I am excited for today. I've been really reading up on Daniel and his achievements and I think that I think that what we've been talking a lot about is content. We've obviously been talking a lot about retargeting as of late and kind of these pre-canned pre working campaigns that we know are just going to win if we can kind of execute. And I think that today is going to be kind of a culmination of all of that. So I'm super excited to have Daniel on the line. For those of you guys that don't know, Daniel, Daniel is the founder of the inbound ascension retargeting and sales psychology and also runs a content marketing and promotion service called Amp my content. So Daniel, man, thanks so much for joining us today.
Daniel: 00:00:56 Thank you for having me. Yeah, I I really appreciate it.
Joe: 00:01:00 Awesome man. So when it comes to content marketing you,
that's kind of where you guys bear your name. Right. And that's some really impressive accomplishments. So I don't usually let people toot their horn this early in the interview, but when you talk about some of your background when it comes to like inbound.org and some of your, your accomplishments there.
Daniel: 00:01:19 Yeah, it's it's kinda crazy cause I traditionally a paid ads guy.
Yup. I'm going to study writing guides about paid ads and they ended up being like some of the best performing of all time. So I wrote a case study about a retargeting campaign. I worked with someone and it ended up being in the top 10 of all time on inbound.org. It actually drove $3 million in client requests in two weeks. What else? We've been the top content on growth hackers for two years in a row. Wow. We've had content shared by the CEO of Microsoft on tech crunch, hacking news, Ryan Deiss, Neil Patel, Susan Patel, Joanna, we all have these kinds of people. So yeah, we're very lucky. Basically
Joe: 00:02:14 A hundred percent. So I want to dive really deep on both
content marketing and promotion, creating assets and, and also then the retargeting side. But before we, before we go super deep and you start showing us all your nuggets, it would be a really great Daniel, if you give us a little bit of background on what happened before you broke out into this successful role.
Daniel: 00:02:40 It's a crazy story. So I'm a, I'm an English guy and I'm in New
Zealand right now. I literally am, I'm in my basement. I can see this palm trees just outside the window. And I fell in love with the country and I was too old to apply for visas and I found a loophole where I could get an entrepreneurship visa. And I was
working at a surf shop and I saw like an opportunity for like kind of like tourists of clothing and stuff. So I designed t-shirts. It went like crazy. We're in five retail stores and five weeks, some ridiculous. And then I got to quit my job and then I was just like, well, what do I do with my time now? So I started to learn SEO and content. I did okay. Like the content wasn't performing that great and it wasn't until I started to learn about direct response and the psychology of why people do things that it actually really took off. Cause I remember spending about 80 or 80 hours on an article that once and it was like, it was designed to sell people and it had, it had a built in calculator so that you could figure out if it was worth doing PPC or SEO and you could figure out the ROI and like run it five years in advance and all this other stuff. And it got like two shares and one was me on Google plus. And then the other was my nan, cause I think she felt sorry for me. She's hilarious. She'd like comment on Facebook ads and stuff if she sees the [inaudible]. So yeah, I got into that and the content wasn't doing great. And then I found direct response. And I wrote a couple of guides and then I wrote that case study and then everything took off after that. Um I've only written like eight blog posts in the last three years maybe, you know, and yet it generates traffic, sales, all kinds of good stuff. We get ridiculously good optin rates. Like we have one article now that has an 83% opt in rate, which is just insane, you know. Because of that, we run paid traffic to content as well. So for every dollar I spend promoting a particular article, I make $22 back. So like with scaling that up and things. But yeah it was a journey of a lot of mistakes and road bumps and things. And I actually did, I set myself down. I don't know if you've ever heard, but it kinda takes like 66 days to form a habit. Yep. And so I decided that I was going to do like the one big scary thing for my business 66 days in a row and by like day 15 or whatever the case study went insane cause I was just doing the things and I was like, okay I'm going to write, I I approach a, someone approached me who ran this this big ecommerce company and they wanted us to do ads and I was like, okay, I'll do it for free if you'll let me write it up. So that was like day two when I wrote it up, reached out to some influences that inbound by, you know, by day seven it was live on there. They'd shared it without me knowing by day 14, we'd had like 300 client requests at 10 grand a pop and I was just like boom. Cause it was only me and an intern and all of a sudden we had like what was 3 million in client requests and all of this stuff is stuff coming through and yeah, it just got, it got crazy pretty when you start focusing on the one next thing you need to do. Yeah man, it's a, it's a crazy story. I've got so many crazy things that have happened, you know, but yeah.
Joe: 00:06:07 Yeah man, that's awesome. When I can't wait to dive into a dive
into it and really break it apart. And so you got kind of two, two brands or two companies, so you have amp my content, right. And then inbound ascension. Can you talk a little bit about both of those, what they are, what they do and when they came along just for context?
Daniel: 00:06:27 Okay. So so we have the retargeting blog and it does really well.
And I was, I'm writing content for it, but the content is doing better than like huge content agencies, you know, like wherever I'm ranking next to Mars and Backlinko and Neil Patel and stuff for this, for this content. And I can't really talk about content marketing on a retargeting blog that much. And so I decided to create amp my content. And the idea is that we talk about all the content promotion side. So no one really talks about it. If they do, it's like massive less posts of like these are different methods but no one was going into like a depth about these different things. And so I think it's a massive channel cause people don't realize it's like content marketing is two parts, the content asset and then marketing the asset will actually get off the ground.
Daniel: 00:07:17 And my partner Frayer who is a classic content marketer, like
super introverted, trying to get her in front of a camera on a podcast. She took a Sass company from 30,000 visits a month to 200,000 in eight months, nine months, something ridiculous. It's worth, you know, multiple millions it per year in revenue. So she's on the content side. So I wanted to create something with her just in case anything happened to me in the future. She has this business that as around her skillset and she is like the cofounder of and it goes from there. So they work together and that one of them drives traffic and the other one teaches you how to get more sales. Right now we're focusing on amp more than anything else just because I want to build that up. It is a fly wheel right now. It makes sales on automation, but we can scale it up now. So I'm just focusing on there until we get the certain revenue goals and then I'll kind of like, you know, bounce back between the two.
Joe: 00:08:17 Alright, fantastic. Good. so that makes sense. Ultimately when
looking at content marketing, you've been able to achieve some crazy things, right? W eight blog posts, you said in the last, how long?
Daniel: 00:08:30 Two, three years maybe. So if the blog posts in 10 months and
I've just been link-building and things and we went from Dr Zero to like d off 40 in like four months. Maybe. It's just crazy. That's, sorry,
Joe: 00:08:47 That w that nut. So like at the end of last year, I sold an exited two of the companies I was in. And so while this is happening, I'm kind of handcuffed, like working through due diligence and working through leaving and exiting and ultimately trying to figure out where the heck my, my my business was going to go. And the cool thing was is that I had negotiated that I was going to keep the customer base on the email list as well so I could continue to email them, which was great. So it was like, look, I don't know where I'm going, but I'm going to at least start creating content. And I knew that for me. I gotta like I gotta I gotta do something for 66 days to get the habit and I can't take days off like it's every day or it's not going to happen. It's every week if it's weekly or it's not gonna happen. And then I got to stand up and I got to like, I got to proclaim it so that my customers call me out if I don't do it. And I just have no option. That's the only way that I will get shit done. And I know that about myself. So I was like, look, at the end of the day, I built two really successful businesses all serving the same market. But at the end of the day, content marketing I've never been great at, right? It's like, hey, we came out with a new promo. Oh, like I know how to sell, I know how to get the marketing done. But the content side of it for me has always been a weak point. So I just decided like, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna nail content. I'm really gonna work on content this year. At least that's what I can do while I'm working the transition. So I got really good at pumping out a lot of content. We were doing daily content for the entire last year. And now we've kind of moved it back and my concentration has really been very timely for this conversation. Right. Really focusing on quality instead of quantity. So being a huge habitual content creator. What advice would you give somebody like me, Daniel, about what it takes to create a really good piece of content and where my mind needs to shift to.
Daniel: 00:10:49 So you don't need to be creating a high volume all the time
from an SEO perspective. It can actually damage you if you've got a lot of content with no links, it'll pull down rankings of stuff that you have gotten. And I know you guys do a lot of SEO and agencies and things.
Joe: 00:11:04 Yeah. And the big problems, we have a lot of very similar pieces of content too. So you mix the two and we got some nightmare scenarios for sure.
Daniel: 00:11:14 Ample, we were ranking number three I think for our target
keyword and the Yoast SEO plugin broke and it created a brand new index page for every image on our article. So we had like 900 pages overnight and we just dropped out there. The search
results, you know, because like we just had too much content on there. So it just goes to show like how it affects I blame kind of media sites in that those guys have paid for eyeballs on adverts and so they churn out content because they want the same person back 10 times a day, you know. But if your business in reality, you need only so many conversations with someone to make a sale. So you don't need a huge volume of content. You need strategic content, any content that sells content that attracts them. And you can create content for systems like for an article, you know, a lot of people link builders are going to link to and stuff like this so that you raise rankings. So it's about being strategic in it and understanding that you don't have to churn out a lot straight away after that you, you realize that you can spend five times as long on an article and get it better because I always see it, this is what blew my mind. So like the direct response world, the paid ad world guys will run an advert to cold audiences, to a sales page and make a sale at a profit. And so they just do that all day and it works because of the psychology of the page and the ad. It pulls them down, it gets a conversion, but they don't create assets. Whereas like the content guys, they want to create assets and they don't want to sell or do ads. I took the principles that we would do for a sales page and I put it into content, the psychology of why it works and how to pull people in and things like this.
Daniel: 00:12:59 So yeah, I make a lot of mistakes and I read a lot of smart
people. So I looked at like Jonah Berger, he wrote a book about contagious, why things go viral, things like that. Like why as a society we share things and link to things and stuff. I read a lot of case studies by buzz sumo and those guys about content and actually does well for rankings. And we found that there's like nine elements basically, that if your content has this, it's going to do well. So you can't add content has authority. I, if you're seen as an expert, more than likely it's going to be shared or linked too because they see it has value, which is another one. Because of that you build reciprocity, I e. People want to pay it back. So I believe it, share it with a friend or the link to it or buy from you so that you include these elements. But when you break it down, in reality, it just needs to be long form. It's not like a 300 word. You know, if you've ever worked in retail or in sales, it's insane that you think that you're talking to one person and you only give them three sentences and be like, yeah, I do SEO. We build links It does this, you know, and that's it. You're not going to convert them. May Not have enough information and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So in reality, you would have this detailed conversation with them. You would move them along and by the end of that, they would even have like a new
belief or they'd be ready to, to possibly buy then. So that's what needs to go into your contents a longer form, step-by-step high value. It needs to connect emotionally as well. So it's, it's not just, you can get away with just saying like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you actually understand the reasons behind why people do it and you can connect with that, if you say like, you know we want to build links to get traffic because then it means you don't have to be at the office until 10 o'clock every night and you can spend time with your family. Something that really resonates, you know, so it's just taking those principles and applying it to your content. But I, I think the coffee's finally kicked in. I do apologize.
Joe: 00:15:05 Yeah, no problem at all. What's interesting, I just had an Aha
moment as you were walking through those things, right? In the comparison of you talking about a sales page, right? Versus organic marketers and paid versus kind of organic. I think for me the Aha moment was I created a lot of webinars, but they're, they're salesy. But at the same time for me, I pack a lot of value in my webinars. It's always my takeaways. There's always when, when a lot of people look at my webinars, they're like, you give too much away. Like pull it back just a little bit because I give them the step by step and then I, it just naturally leads into a very easy pitch at the end. It's like, here's how I can automate this or make it faster or more, more painless for you. And I like giveaway the form on the Webinar. But I also show them that the deliverable is huge. Right. And then give them a solve. So it seems like I could potentially reuse a lot of those webinars as content pieces so to speak. Any thoughts on that?
Daniel: 00:16:10 Totally. Cause if I'm, I'm guessing you have some kind of
structure to those webinars. Definitely. And it's normally someone has this problem and then they want this result and then I'm going to share how you get there to that result. And then there's some kind of call to action at the end.
Joe: 00:16:25 Yeah. But throughout their, there's case studies and
testimonials and techniques and I really push it far. A lot of webinars just kind of give you the tip and it's all sales. I don't, because I want to make sure that, yeah, it's all hype. I want to make sure that just like your, your list of the nine things and I got them in front of me. It's all about like building value. It's useful. There's a story. It connects emotionally. There's tons of proof. There's curiosity, there's controversy. And, and I want them to have a lasting memory of me and that's how I really push these webinars. And so looking at your list of nine things like, seems like that's like, that's huge.
Daniel: 00:17:03 Yeah. It's all in there. And I'm like, a lot of people think that you,
you don't give things away. You kind of hold it all back. But that's crazy. No one buys a cheeseburger because they don't know what it's made of or how it's made. Right. It's because they know what it is and then it's convenience and it's experience and things like that. So a case studies, people do case studies wrong. A case study is designed to, to help someone make a buying decision. And what we're looking for is a transformation. Cause we, we have a problem and we want it. We want a change in state ourselves. We want to be from where we are now to where we want it to be. So when you write a case study and it's like we worked with these people, we got x result and that's it, it's not good enough. If you actually break down, they were before how much their life sucked, what it is like now. And then all the steps that you took to get them there, guess what? The people who want to hire you or buy from you, they now see everything that's involved in like I want that, I don't want to do it myself. I want to buy that. And that's why like that case study that did a 3 million in requests, that's what it was. I could've just said that we did this and it wouldn't have worked. But because I show it all and I break it all down, it's really easy to make a buying choice then because it's like, oh yeah, I can see that they did this and they did this. Oh, that makes sense. And then we can use this. And so it follows through. So like what you're saying where those high value webinars exactly.
Daniel: 00:18:27 You could pull them out and turn them into content and and
push them through. But it doesn't always have to be a sale, but there should always be a call to action. So sometimes for example, in content you have a top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel and things. And the, the beauty of that is you're talking to people who are further and further, removed from a buying decision. And so with that content, you want to go out and talk to the problem that they have solve it. And then there's usually another problem. And when you solve that and then there's another problem and then you're, what you're doing is you're conditioning them to be ready to buy. So at amp right now we have a training program called the amplify academy. So we talk about like content writing and the promotion process and stuff like that.
Daniel: 00:19:17 For me to get a customer, someone has to be keen about
promotion, you know, they have to want to be promoting that content. But because it's, you know, as a search term, it only gets like 1500 searches a month, which in content marketing is like a fraction of a percent. So why I need to do is I need to bring them to that point and get them ready. So we talk about why
promotion is important. We show them that a high value content and less is is easy to do. If you hit these boxes, then we show them how to collect more leads. We count them because now it's more effective. Like our new site only gets like 40 visitors a day right now just because we're competing with huge sites and we're building links and building links and buildings. We have paid out to running, making sales.
Daniel: 00:20:02 But I think every visitor's worth like $4 50 just to the page
because it converts and it does its job and things like that. So each of those pieces of content and moving someone ready to make a purchase decision, where as if I made it straight away, it wouldn't make sense. And that's the problem. Like 2% of our site traffic becomes a customer either because we don't offer anything. Well we offer too soon before they understand what it is or they haven't actually got to that point yet, you know? So you can actually use content to do that and move them along and get them to that point. So it doesn't always have to be, I apologize as dogs barking, it doesn't always have to be a sale, but there has to be something that's sold like an Aha moment. You don't have to be riding all the time. Boom. Yup. Okay. Well what can I do? What if you write better? It converts better. Okay, awesome. If it actually captures more leads, you can get away with less traffic before you start to promote and then you move them along, you know? But yeah, the coffee is definitely kicked in. Sorry.
Joe: 00:21:04 Yeah, that's great. So what have you seen works best? You
talked about kind of getting the optin even if you're not getting a sale and moving them down, kind of that, that value ladder or even just the, the decision ladder, right to do business with you really more decision ladder than value ladder. What have you seen that has worked well in terms of of a way to get an opt in? I'm sure you guys have tried all kinds of different things.
Daniel: 00:21:31 We have and now we use just one thing. So same as the sales
page. I remove all those different things. I don't want to exit intent. I don't use this, I don't have sidebars. You, you, you spend all this energies to get someone there. That content is designed to keep them pulled down the page and sell them on something and an idea or a concept or an author or something. So I remove everything else because if you have too many options, people choose to take no option, you know? So like I can understand a lot of people are scared that they might lose that traffic somewhere, but you're actually pushing them away because it's too much. That can be a look at Forbes right now there's a video playing in the corner, there's a pop up or something else, and it's like 12% of the screen where you're
actually reading the article, you know, it's that awful experience.
Daniel: 00:22:23 So remove all distractions and then we use what we call a hyper
specific next step offer. So it's basically a lead magnet or a content upgrade. If you've heard of those, I'm sure you have. Just your audience. Yeah. So it's a, it's a bonus that is unique to that piece of content. We don't use it anywhere else. And the reason being is because it's hyper specific. It's the next thing that they wanna do. So let's say I talk about how to do lead capture, my opt in could be, hey, here's like a couple of videos of me showing you how to do this. It takes like four minutes because once they've read that post, they want to capture more leads. If I don't have an offer, if I have a random offer to go buy my content book or something, it doesn't align and it doesn't make sense. Whereas the next thing they want to do does, and so that's why we get such high opt in rates. I think our lowest is 15% and the highest is 83% because it's the next thing they want to take. And then there's like some psychology around it. You know, if you get it to be a two step opt in so they have to press a button and then the form appears, you'll increase lift by like 20 30%. You know, so that's different things around it. But that's all we use man. Just that one thing.
Joe: 00:23:35 So that's, I've done really, really well with, with content
upgrades as well. I've always had a challenge figuring out how to push that even just to the next thing because they're all different, right? How do you connect the dots? Even if I'm not focused on a sale tomorrow cause I'm not, but just what's the next step of the journey and how do I connect that to some type of logical progression? What's your thought there?
Daniel: 00:24:03 So I like to do a lot of customer research. I'll sit down and talk
with people and things like that and I'll look at forums and stuff. I'm quite empathetic. I try and understand why people are doing things. You know, why they're angry, why they're sad, what's the reason behind it. And then I try and map out that journey logically with those steps. It's like, what do they need to understand? Okay, what do I need to understand next? It's like, it's, it was almost eight problems that are stopping someone from buying, but they don't have five of them yet because they don't even understand those things exist. It's like a new problem that occurs afterwards, you know? So it's like mapping those out. And what I will do, I will interview three different people. I will interview people who don't even realize they have the pain, but they don't know what the problem is yet.
Daniel: 00:24:54 Yup. I'll interview people who have realized what the problem is
and then I'll interview people who've solved it, who've got past it. Because people don't always say what they mean. And if I speak to all three of them, that's a journey they're from. Like, I don't even know why I have this problem or what it is now. I figured out I do have a problem and then that person who's already solved it and what life is like, now I can figure out that transformation and I can ask them about the different points, but I can also get the language that they use because that person who's solved it, the the thing that's important to them. Now, guess what? There's probably the thing that actually drives them at the start, but the person at the start will give you a totally different thing. They'll say what they want traffic. Whereas in reality, you know, they wanted time with family and things like that. Yeah. So I, I just sit down and have coffee with people. Yup. And we ask those questions and then we plan it out. I'll usually record it like like we are now just so I can go back again and I have it like an Aha moment. I be like, oh, they said this and then they sent this and then it helps me map that process app.
Joe: 00:26:02 Yeah. So we do the same thing in like strategy sessions or
consultations and it's all about identifying kind of the steps of the buyer's journey so that we understand what's really happening. And it's always, you know, asking questions that you feel like are redundant, but, and why do you feel that way and, and why? And you just like keep going further and further and further. So, so that's beautiful. Customer interviews make a lot of sense. I really liked though, what you took away that we don't do is that you hit people that don't know the problem yet that are going through the problem and then people that have made it out. The other side to that was, that was brilliant. And it's definitely something that can see you should be doing in any business, no matter if it's content or it doesn't, it doesn't matter.
Joe: 00:26:48 So a lot of our customers are agencies and it's just like, man,
you should be talking to if you niche down to a vertical. So I have Josh Nelson on the podcast. He's a good friend of mine. They have a plumbing and HVAC company, right? And, and all that they do is marketing for the, for those types of companies. When he started, he should've went after each of those different segments so he could understand kind of the landscape even better. And I've never heard anybody break it down like that. That was, that was smart man. Wicked take away.
Daniel: 00:27:16 Thank you. It's, so I run a lot of ads as well and it's high
competition and expensive to target people who are ready to buy. So like some keywords, you know, like $25 a click and things like that, but one step removed, it's like 4 cents a click. It's also blue ocean. So people talk about like like a content funnel. Like, obviously like a funnel that you would get in the house. But it's also because like the traffic volume at each level is exponentially bigger. And if you can talk to people who have that pain in the stomach and they don't understand what's causing it, what the problem is, and lead them to understanding where the problem lies. Well now they've got a pain and they understand it and now you can help move them towards being a customer and solving that pain. You know, like a lot of companies do it like makeup and things, you know, they create self confidence issues about them. People buy, you know, the great new ways to hate yourself and things like that. I'm not trying to manipulate that stuff, but I'm trying to understand like there's someone out there who has that pain and they don't know why. And if I can reach them, then we can help them. And they might not be a customer for like three months, but we were filling a much wider, a deeper pipeline and bringing people in really, really [inaudible].
Joe: 00:28:44 So I'm curious if we look at the e-commerce example that we
talked about earlier, can we break that down to what the piece of content was about? What was w what was that journey that we took people through? What was the optin offer? So that we have like a real life example that we can tie this thing to Daniel.
Daniel: 00:29:05 Yeah. So,uoh, it wasn't the E-comm, the e-comm was like a, a a
paid ads study. But like if I amp my content, like literally what we use now, Yup. I'll break down my funnel, which I don't know if it's going to help people become customers.
Joe: 00:29:20 It's some type of example I think would be really great. So
people get it like concrete. I think in theory everything makes sense and best practices, definitely some great takeaways. But now when we look at it in practice I think would be great.
Daniel: 00:29:34 Okay. So, like I said, W we s we sell this program about how to actually improve your content and make it more effective, but then actually how to promote it. How we do everything influences ads, podcast, page, you know, all of it. People are scared by paid traffic. They're scared of outreach that some people don't even know that promotion is like an effective ROI and things like this. So it was a lot of things that I need to believe to be ready for that offer. So I target people who are content marketers and I explain how the first thing is, you know,
if they're going insane at home and they're banging their head and the kids are asleep and they found five minutes at 10:00 AM and they're like, oh, what should I write? I don't know. I'm going to write about like the new Batman Film and what it taught me about SEO or something like that. You know, they don't have to do that. You can actually sit down and have a strategy and when you do it, you can write less often and get traffic. And I break down all the problems that are causing them. And that pain point right there. And so then my opt in offer is I sat with a friend Jason, who runs a big Facebook group on say like trap fishing and things, the salmon fishing. And when he writes an article and he really releases it to the group, he might do, I think it's about three or four grand in sales because people read it from the group that come across and things like that. But then the week after that article gets maybe to visit as a month. Yeah, that's it. You know like, and then so he has to write something new and it takes him eight hours and then he puts it out. And so he's got all these assets that are doing nothing after that first interaction.
Daniel: 00:31:14 And if Facebook closes the group or something like that, it's not
going to work. We did some keyword research and like for the actual term, there's 20,000 searches a month. And the number one site has four backlinks. So it's like right now you could quadruple your traffic per month just with that one article if you just did a bit of SEO or like looking for ways that promotion is more important. Yup. And so that's what the video is. We go behind the scenes and we show that and suddenly they have this Aha moment that yes, I should be focusing more on promotion. We go into the math of it as well. So now that they, they think that their next big problem is like, oh well what if my content isn't good enough? And so they get scared to actually go out and promote content, which in fan is a lot of content isn't great, you know, it doesn't hit those elements.
Daniel: 00:32:05 So we explain what those elements are in the next article, you
know, like, so we'll get a subscriber and then we'll send them the next article when it's ready or whatever. So the next one is understanding those elements that make up good content and how to get past certain writing issues and understanding the strategy behind content so that you, you know, you're not running all the time and stuff like that. And then they opt in off of there is, you don't even have to write anything new. You can improve an old article. So we take an article that I really liked and it was on Ryan holiday's a site and I it and it took it from 500 words to about two and a half thousand. And you can see, and I even break down here, I am putting authority into it. Here. I'm making it step by step.
Daniel: 00:32:49 I'm adding it value and you can see the two articles side by side.
I can't put it on my blog because someone else's content, you know, but they can see that and I do a video and I break it down and it's like, you know, I'm not pitching anything. I'm just selling Aha moments and moving them forward. And they can say, Oh wow, I probably got an article. And when I show them, I'm like search for an article that gets traffic, but it's not your best one, but maybe it's a third best one. So there's room for improvement. You know, here's how you improve it. Here's how you work on it, here's I implement those things. Now your article is better, but guess what? We're going to take it one step further. I'm not going to show you how to create opt-ins from it because then it's going to create even more value.
Daniel: 00:33:29 And then that way the traffic you're getting now is more
effective. So not only is the article doing better and it's converting better, but with an opt in offer convert even higher. So now you've got an article that's ready to promote to now you're ready to learn about the promotion costs and things like this. You know? So I walk them through all those steps and it's all value. And the crazy thing is, is like we've got competitors linking to that as a reference and stuff and it's driving traffic and things cause they, they don't see what's happening, you know? And there's nothing sleazy about it. I'm, I know from personal experience that is a problem and that's a pain point and here's how you get past those things and it just happens to be, if you want the product at the end, that's what it does. And if not, you can figure out things on your own or you can read our guides and stuff like that, you know, hopefully that helps.
Joe: 00:34:22 That helps a lot, man. That's beautiful. It is. It is. My webinar multiplied by two is really all that it is, right? Because I know that I only have an hour on the Webinar and I know minute 40 minutes at minute 40, I got to transition into the pitch and my, my pieces are a little bit long because of because I like to deliver so much content, but I know that if I just did probably twice that I would have an entire funnel that I could take evergreen, so to speak. And definitely they're all, they're all really, to some degree, linkable assets are, most of them are and would definitely fit in a progressive kind of a customer journey.
Daniel: 00:35:12 Mm. So all we're doing is we're basically taking what is a sales
page and expanding it and then breaking it down into chunks and cause like you know, some sales pages are 12,000 words and they do that, they set the problem and then what you want and then they work through it and all this kind of stuff. And at the end they make an offer, which is great for a sales page, but for a piece of content it doesn't always get linked to. And so
that's why we don't do it as big piece. We do it as separate pieces because then the separate assets. Also, I'm a real nerd man. I read a lot of books on neuroscience and things like this.
Daniel: 00:35:48 If we take someone on a journey and it's in one experience, like
people listening to this podcast, now I'm probably not going to buy my course, but if they van go in and they read of pieces of the content and stuff, there's a good chance they'll convert. The reason for that is almost everything we do is based on prior experience. So systems of belief, patterns of belief and things like this. So if I try and get you to have 10 Aha moments and then purchase, if the price is okay and stuff, you'll do it. But if I get you to have one Aha moment and then I give you a few days to kind of sink it in and now it becomes a new, a pattern of belief and then I give you the next one and I let it sink in. And the next one, if I just made the offer straight away, you'd think of all the things in the past that are, that you already knew and then you, you might or might not make the decision.
Daniel: 00:36:42 But if I let you have time, I'm pre-framing everything. And now
they are hooks that you make your decision off of. I know I don't need to be writing all the time. I know my content needs to be better. I know it needs to convert better and I know I need to promote if they believe all those things, if I've given them time to make that new belief and they make the offer huge. That's why I say like if you all going to take a webinar and break it down, you probably want to do it into multiple parts. So like the introduction and the pain point in your story is probably part one. The how to and the value is probably part two, some of the value and then the call to action is probably part three them and it takes them to an offer page or something.
Joe: 00:37:21 You know, do we interlink those? Because that's where my
complexity starts to kill me. Right. So like if somebody comes in on our, like the first step after my bio in Intro, what do we do? Right. Because probably my, my intro is not really a linkable asset. It's not going to rank. But that's an important part of the buyer's journey for them to understand who the heck I am.
Daniel: 00:37:48 So all of our sales are done via email. Yeah. So I always want to be collecting the leads. I always want to add a specifc offer.. So whatever you create. So if you have that intro section and it's not just about you, it's about them and how you are similar to them, how you've had that same problem definitely. And you've got past it because they need to see themselves in it. They need to see that there is something there about them and you had that same experience.
Daniel: 00:38:15 Then you can have an offer like we did when I'm like I'm trying
to show you that this is a problem and here's my friend Jason and he's got that problem and we walked through and solved it and now there's social proof and so they want to opt in and see that because it's not there. It's not in the article. The article itself is good enough, but this is the next step and it's a bonus and it's added value and it makes you know, and it's not salesy either because I'm not pushing anything here's the thing. So we have all those articles on our site already. We wrote them like maybe six months ago.
Daniel: 00:38:47 So sometimes people will opt in to like a paid ads article and
there's links everywhere to all these guides and I'll see them opt into all of them within about two hours. They've read all that content and stuff and they'll message me directly and say, Hey, I want to buy your product. The people I've sent the sales page to don't buy. Whereas if I give them time and then you know, cause we opened up every three months or something, then if I, if then they wait for that three months, almost always a convert. So it's like having them all interlinked where you can just move from one to the next to the next to the next, we'll convert a really hot buyer. If you space it out, it will turn them into a hot buyer, you know, because otherwise now they're making a decision based on this is the price, do I need this, I've got this thing.
Daniel: 00:39:35 You know, they haven't given it time to kind of stew. It's like a multiple movies. DC absolutely sucked and can't make money because they tried to include 10 years of story in two films and here's all this stuff and here's all this. And there's no emotional component and there's no world-building. There's no belief systems and things like that. Where's the Marvel films? They did one Aha moment after another. And so then when the Avengers end game comes out, everyone in the world sees it like four times. You know? And some imagine if they tried to launch end game at the start, no one would have watched it. You know, I don't know who this is, I don't know what that is. I'm not invested in the stakes. Same kind of thing. So it's actually moving them along. So all you really need is an optin offer and then at a no wait four or five days and then send them the next thing and then the next thing. And then you basically got an automated email sales.
Joe: 00:40:26 Yup. Beautiful. Yeah, man, that's fun. Absolutely fantastic. So
let's zoom out for a second and let's talk about retargeting. So we spent 40 minutes so far talking about kind of content marketing. It's went by really fast. Umand I know that a big
piece of what you do is retargeting. So how are you applying retargeting to this content marketing process?
Daniel: 00:40:56 A couple of ways. Probably not how. Most people do it. So I
don't like wasting anything. So I will run a retargeting ad to people who've read a piece of content and didn't opt in. So let's say I have an article people come across to it and there's like 20% opt in as 80% of people didn't. So I will just run a basic retargeting ad for the same opt in offer. And you'd be surprised the people who don't say yes to it, first up to 50% of them will say yes to it afterwards. And it costs us like, I don't know, 20 cents per lead at that point. So I'm.
Joe: 00:41:36 Just for clarification, do you take them Daniel, back to the exact
same page or dedicated Optin?
Daniel: 00:41:41 I create like a squeeze page for it instead. And it's just there and
it's on that because they've already read the article, you know, and they want the thing. Plus once they have opted in, almost all of my opt in pages have a link back to the original article. If they want to go read it again so that they can connect the dots between the two. Okay. in terms of sales, the sales process, most people will make an offer and then it don't say anything. That's it. Like, and so it's like, Hey, do you want to buy my thing? And then that's it. A lot of sales are made in the followup. So they call it reframing where they find objections that people have and then they try and reframe it into like how it's how this thing actually gets passed that. So good salesman will do that. They'll try and reframe your objections that you have learned and will tell me what's the problem? We'll try and fix it. Even better. Salespeople will pre-frame all the objections in advance to make the offers.
Daniel: 00:42:36 So that's what we're doing with that content is we're pre-
framing all these things. If you really wanted to, I don't do it all the time on the front, but you can actually retarget the next article to people a few days after. So when you have the email and you have an ad and they see and it's just targeting them for that next article and that sequence, chances are really high that they're going to click across and there's a lot of authority built and things like that. So when you are helping to move people through that funnel, you know, giving them moments and stuff and being in lots of places. So that helps get them to the point where they're ready for an offer. Because like I said, most people don't even get as far as your offer. And that's why they don't buy, you know, they don't even fully understand what you're doing on the back end.
Daniel: 00:43:20 Once you've made your offer, you can also reframe objections
or you can stack things to it. So most people who don't buy are either, they're not interested until that's fine, but then you've got people who are interested in forgot, which is what most basic retargeting is. Hey, this thing's here, you can buy it and you'll make a lot of sales doing that. But then you have different audience types. You have people who are skeptical and now you have people who worry and you have people to procrastinate. So the people who are skeptical don't think the thing works. They should do with your content is good enough. But what you can do is you can show them other case studies. And if they see those case studies that actually worked, then they're going to be less skeptical because they're like, oh, actually these results do work so I can retarget people who've seen that offer and didn't buy with these things.
Daniel: 00:44:09 You know, people who worry about it. Usually it's a self limiting belief. Oh, it works for other people, but it doesn't work for me. So we can angle that. We can do what we call hero studies. So like maybe it's people I didn't work with directly, but it's people who followed my content and results they've got. So then it's like social proof from a third party. We can do a, you know, people who use that product like influencers and things like this and it helps them get past that. And then your like the last segment of people who procrastinate. And so what we can do is we can kind of try and twist the knife and actually really talk about, you know, the main pain point that they have a, it's going to keep happening if you don't do something about it. Or you can just scare city play. Like it's only open for x amount of time, I'm going to do an offer. Most people retargeting is, here's the thing, here's a discount. But when you jump straight to the discount, yes it helps make a decision. But it wasn't priced. That was the issue. It was like a self limiting belief or a, they didn't think the thing would actually do its job. So I try and create an entire sequence of ads and I try and hit those different things.
Joe: 00:45:21 Super Helpful. Yeah, no, no, no, no. It's fantastic. We, we go
super deep on, on retargeting and most people just glaze over. So, so we could talk about just retargeting forever. Like we do, we do thank you videos to people that buy our stuff. We do thank you videos to people that just opt in and they're just like blown away. We got your average order value, right? I mean, it's a crazy customer. We'll put a coupon and a thank you video and it'll get a 10 times return on ad spend. And it was a thank you video. It's not meant to get a return. It's like, just met to say thank you, right? Like at, but people share it and they love it because it's genuine. But yeah, so we do a lot of retargeting for local businesses too. And so we run, we were on offer ads,
branding ads review ads. And so we broken them down into those different chunks. For local businesses though it's hard, haven't really, it's hard, but I haven't really thought about it from like a skeptic's point of view. We also do then like monthly offers and usually that kind gets somebody over it. But I've never thought about it from the persona,
Daniel: 00:46:31 Right. So like so it's a company here. I live by the beach and so
like all the companies are surf based and stuff and there's one, I think it's called pipe masters, which is named after a surf competition. But basically all they do is they install outdoor showers on your house so you can have a shower after a surf and they have this beautiful social media profile and they show the jobs and stuff. So what they're doing is they're showing like proof and trust that the actual thing works and things like that. But they could look at it from a another point of view. You know, there can be targeting people who've been to the site and it can be
Daniel: 00:47:08 You know, you probably would go surfing more often if you can have a quick warm shower outside in your wet suit. We used to do it, we used to get our wetsuit on, fill it with hot water, and then run down the beach because it was freezing cold, you know? And so like increased our surfs by like 30%, you know, because I went straight into water by the time it's cold, we're back out again and we're back in the hot shower outside and now I can go to work and things like that. So like targeting these different things. We we worked with a a paid ads company who were selling wedding rings. And what they would do is if someone didn't make the purchase, they would offer a cheaper rings assuming that price was the issue. But it's not if a guy, you know, or whoever didn't buy the ring, it could be a couple of things.
Daniel: 00:47:54 It could be like, I don't know how to figure out how to find the right size or I'm not sure how to make the right choice for this person. Or I like that. I want something better and I couldn't find it. So you're actually like pushing a discount. Pushing a lower ticket might be the opposite reason why they didn't buy. They wanted something more expensive because the more expensive it is, the more it shows how much I love this person. You know? It's always like you really have to think about, that's why if you do that research, you can find those angles and be like, well why would someone be skeptical? Why would someone worry about this? You know, here's how you make sure you've got the entire diamond ring industry. It's how it was built. Like the spending, what two months of your paycheck it was so someone who's super rich can buy a really expensive
diamond ring, but then a guy who works like in a factory can still buy one.
Daniel: 00:48:44 It won't offend the guy who is up here because now guess what
the actually two months of paycheck is what their baseline is. So this guy's going to buy one, it's going to be huge and this guy's going to buy one. It's going to be the best he can get. And so like their condition and these people to like buy these things without upsetting the other audience and things like that. It's so smart. Like before that people used to wear rubies and it was all content marketing and it was all like conditioning, certain thought patterns, you know, so that you can look into that. But again I knew it out on this stuff too hard.
Joe: 00:49:16 Yeah Dude, I love it. Do you, do you do just Facebook for
retargeting or you do for local mds? Do you push it very hard?
Daniel: 00:49:26 Not a huge amount cause we're only working on that one site
right now and it only gets like organically, it only gets about 40 visitors a day. Also because our conversion rates are really good on the front end. So it's like often the audience is too small on the back end to retarget because they've already converted because we're only talking to people who didn't take the offer. And then we still stay in Facebook. We do still have it on because we are driving cold traffic. But again, we're doing like conversion goals, so we might only have 24 people click, but then 20 of them opt in, stuff like that, you know, so we're still, there's so much room to scale. We're not in over channels. Like I would definitely want to get into adwords and things like that. But right now I'm better off and reinvesting 100% of what we turn over back into Facebook again and again and again until we hit like cap on that. And even then we can go into different markets and stuff, you know?
Joe: 00:50:25 Yeah. 100%. We've just, we on our side that, that Gmail is really good for marketers, right? And everybody uses Gmail, right? So g Gmail ads and just echoing what you did on Facebook has been a huge one for us. And then in stream ads to men, like just being able to talk and video versus just texting images is as much like Facebook and cost per view to sense across like, you know, millions of dollars in spend a month. 2 cents of view is like what we're seeing in terms of youtube. Like, it's just if they're not on Facebook, right. A lot of them were on youtube or on Gmail and so it's just, it's been wins for us and we can kind of just copy and paste what we're doing on Facebook to the other ones and nobody's really doing it, which is insanity.
Daniel: 00:51:09 Yeah. Cause it takes that multiple touch points and it's also the
more people see you in different places, you know, the ease like little of senior advocate five times and they'll be like six time like wow this is amazing. Why have I never seen this before? And it's like you have seen it, you just don't remember it. You weren't paying attention at the time. I mean if you are in multiple channels, I can't remember, I think it was salesforce, they were targeted that email list when they sent an email out and the people who saw the advert and email were like 40% more likely to click through and buy, you know, whereas the email on its own or the ad on its own, like combining those two areas. So that's brilliant. Like actually advertising inside of the Gmail.
Joe: 00:51:51 Yeah. It's great. We do that with podcast guests too. We'll be targeting your audience inside of Gmail and I'll use my image and your image, like right now what you see on screen. And so it's co-branded. So now they get to know me, but they click because of you. And then my message is always like, Hey, I just interviewed Daniel. I know you guys follow him. And he just shared something crazy and I, you know, just clip a little sound byte and then I'm like, you gotta watch the rest of the episode and now I'm warm. I'm no longer cold. So that's been working really, really well.
Daniel: 00:52:25 Red Carpet effect, right? Yes. Implied Authority. Right? But
being a association between two things, that's why we do adverts with the influences using it. Because then it's like, our product is good. You can trust the product because these guys use it. You know? That's why people pay celebrities and athletes too. And that's why their sponsored athletes and things.
Joe: 00:52:46 Yep. Yep. It's the same thing. It's the same thing in the affiliate
marketing world, right. The reason that it converts better is because you get their endorsement and their introduction and their blessing on the product. And so yeah, I'm always thinking in my head like, how do I leverage someone else's audience and not be completely cold? And what are ways that I can do that at scale.
Daniel: 00:53:08 That's it. Like think a among kind of like a mad hook right now.
And I'm running a content marketing book and the book is designed actually it's designed to leverage Amazon's traffic. You know, like some people are doing it and they're doing like $90,000 in books just to the book alone to bring people in. And it's designed to help people with content marketing. So they're ready for our course. So like it the exact same thing and going out there. And a lot of people don't realize when you're creating content, you have content for your customer, but you also have
to create content for different traffic systems. Like if you want a lot of backlinks, your customers don't have websites, they can't link to you. So you need to create content that's going to appeal to those people. If you want to run paid ads to content, that content has to convert, you know, so you have to understand those systems that drive traffic and how best to use them. And it's kind of crazy that people don't realize like the two things, I leave it like just create content for Google and have no way of converting their audience all. They'll just create content for the customer to make a sale and then they can't get traffic in because they're not building anything that gets links and stuff. You know, you have to combine the two.
Joe: 00:54:19 That's a huge takeaway for sure. So I know that I can take what
we have and I know that we can get good opt-ins and good conversions from it because we have crazy data and what we teach is next level. So that's not a problem. I guess for me, I wonder how do we make sure that when we target like the stuff at the top of the funnel, but wider stuff, the stuff that is more linkable assets, the stuff that's gonna get us more of the traffic so that we can take them down. That buyer's journey. Paid traffic makes a lot of sense and it's going to be a lot cheaper, but how do we make sure that we hit kind of the right things that that will get us a win, right? That will be linkable assets and won't just kind of tank after we spend two or three months building those assets. Like that's my fear.
Daniel: 00:55:06 Well, it's what most people don't have and what you need is
you need that sales sequence because that becomes the backbone and then everything else ties in at some level. You know, if you're writing case studies, it should link back to that offer and back and forth. If you're doing SEO content for top of funnel, at some point it should have a side of link back to the start of that funnel so that they understand, hey, you have this pain point because, and then you know, you can kind of manipulate the systems. You find a keyword that gets traffic that's not that difficult and then you write a great guide about it and you promote and build links because no one else has got a good guide about it. You create a lot of links more than you normally would for an article that raises every other pages, rankings because it's an inverse, right?
Daniel: 00:55:52 If you've got a lot of content and over links goes down, if you've
got fewer content but we've doesn't have to be too, but like as long as content is on links to all your content, then everything else starts to rise up as well. So you can talk at those different things and talk about it and build links to it and pull people in like a, we just did an article about paid content promotion,
cause not a lot of people talk about it, but Facebook ads, so 75 sites and look into it like unique domains, you know, so like that drives the majority, our backlink profile. That's really Internet, right? And that pulls people into a sales funnel. And then I can create another article. A big thing that people miss is niche authority. So if you write an article, keep talking about that topic for a while.
Daniel: 00:56:39 So write like five articles around it. So if you're going to talk
about content promotion with paid ads, for example, next thing I'm going to do is I'm going to talk about how to troubleshoot those ads and I should talk about his scale. Those ads. We've got a guide coming out of someone who read it and got results. People want to put labels on things. And so if they know, if you help them figure out who you are, they're more likely to see you and authority. He's the pay promotion guy and he's got killer stuff on Facebook promotion. And then I can be an authority in the space. But if I talk, like I've done SEO, I've done influencer marketing, I've done all of this other stuff. If I bounce around between those topics, I'm just enough of marketing bug. But if I stick with that one thing where the expert at that thing, and once you're the expert at that thing, it's really easy to go across to an adjacent thing. Like Lewis House was, what was he doing? Selling webinars or teaching people how to build linkedin profiles at first, then webinars and he did a podcast and now he's sending podcast training, you know, but he had to have those areas of influence before he moved on. You know,
Joe: 00:57:42 I love that. And the other big thing I took away when you were
just talking was kinda hitting the sub-niche and having an angle I think is more important as long as it just applies to the general scope or the general category so that you can reach out with to a huge audience. Instead of, I don't, I don't know. Like for me the skyscraper method by Brian Dean, I love it, but in the SEO space like or marketing space, like how do you win with something like that? I look at it and I'm like, Holy Shit. Like that's a lot of work. But I could take a unique case study or an angle from a webinar that has to do with link building or marketing and it would still crush it because it's kind of a sub category that probably most people aren't talking about.
Daniel: 00:58:28 That's the thing as well with SEO is most people are doing
retroactive stuff. So like skyscraper, find an article that does well improve it, make your version. When I find a piece of content that people haven't done, you know that people actually want because you're talking to your audience, you know, it's a topical thing that's coming up because you're looking in forums, you know, it's a pain point that no one's
talked about. Like the reason we have content promotion as our main topic is yes, of how important I know it is, but it's also trending upwards. So more and more people as we get in this content glut, looking at this. So in 10 years it might be as big a keyword as content marketing and on its own, you know, so we're seeing those two things. So like looking at what is needed and what's missing and then creating stuff around that.
Joe: 00:59:18 Yeah, no, who knows. Hopefully it will be the brand name, right.
A one when it comes to that down the road in five years. Right. Like you'll be the household name in that growing industry and that growing trend because you've been the expert for so long. So yeah.
Daniel: 00:59:34 Yeah, it's pretty cool. We're excited for what, for what it can do
and we just, just scaling it now as we go. But yeah,
Joe: 00:59:42 Man, this has been killer. Just looking at the time, man, we may
have to have you come back. I like to keep these right at an hour, but we barely even touched on anything and the time just flew by man. I wanna thank you. So real quick, I guess to wrap things up, anything that, anything that you think we missed? If somebody is going to listen to this episode and they go through the hour and they're like, holy crap, is there anything that you think maybe we need to hit on real quick before we wrap it up?
Daniel: 01:00:10 Well, I know you always ask for a book recommendation, right?
And I was trying to like, ah, there's so many books but that I would say scientific advertising, which is like a really simplified version of learning, direct response. Read that book. And if you learn that, you'll learn why people do the things that you do and how to get them to do an action and how to measure that result. And then you can apply it to your content, your emails to your ads, to your sales page and stuff like that. The more you understand your audience, the easier it is to make a product that they want and to sell it, you know, like it's not just because it does this thing. I got a sales page has changed four times, same product, but like understanding the angle better of what the audience needs and then improving and from there. So, yeah, I would recommend reading that book super cheap. I think you can even get it on pdf and free now. And then understanding your audience the more time you spend there, as crazy as those people are, you know, like the better you'll understand and the easier your job will be.
Joe: 01:01:12 Yeah. Fantastic. That's great. I always talk about just being a
curious, curious prospect, right? And that if you're interested in going into a vertical, like you should be having conversations
with that niche all the time and it doesn't matter how you get the conversation started. If you've got an ask for a favor, an introduction to somebody else, like it doesn't matter, but you should be very, very curious and you've got to know them. So that book recommendation is, is very timely and I think it also ties in very well with, with what we talked about today. So thank you very, very, very much for that. Daniel. As you look at your businesses and you look at your success, is that the one book that you think that has made the biggest impact on your business? Not like, you know, it was great but I didn't do anything with it. Obviously you took that book and you applied it, but I feel like there's so many books that people toss around that are like, yeah, that was a fantastic book. It's a must read. And then you look at their business and their life and they didn't apply anything from it.
Daniel: 01:02:12 So that was probably the biggest one that helped me
understand my audience. It's weird. It's like what book at different stages in your journey? I would say like the biggest one for me is a book by Ryan holiday called the obstacle is the way, which is about stoicism and learning how to deal with difficult situations but also had to deal with success because like at one point where a small business and then we were like a huge business and then when, you know, we didn't always handle it well and things like that. My weight, I put on like 30 kgs, stuff like this, you know, because you're trying to do like 14 hour days and three red balls and things. So reading that and helping me reset my brain. Now like, you know, we get links by huge companies, which is great. We also get people talking smack to us in Facebook ads, which is fine.
Daniel: 01:03:04 Both things I hold an equal regard in that it's, you know, it's
cool, I can focus on the process and just keep doing the thing. So that book, he's got a third one coming out, I think called stillness is the key, but they're like those books that I hated them about stoicisms. So helpful. There's entrepreneur cause sometimes you know, we don't always have people to talk to or you know, sometimes you can be super successful and then go back chit crazy, you know, and spend money everywhere or do something stupid, you know. But yeah those [inaudible]
Joe: 01:03:34 Awesome man. So we'll definitely link up to you a both at
inbound, ascension and also amp my content. What, what are you most active on social wise? If somebody wants to reach out and thank you for, for coming onto the podcast.
Daniel: 01:03:47 So I'm on Twitter at inbound ascend a. S. C. E. N. D. I don't push
social. So like it's usually I might say on Twitter, oh here's an
article. But usually it's like, hey look what my cat's doing. And there's a photo of him in a basket, you know, so like I don't push it on there but you can get me on there, you can message me at your tag and follow and stuff. It's Kinda good cause we're not selling to you all the time. I'm there I guess.
Joe: 01:04:12 Yeah a hundred percent so everybody, if you would please take
a second. If you guys enjoyed today's interview, I know I enjoyed it. I'll be jumping over to Daniel's Twitter, giving them a little shout out for today, showing them some love and I would really appreciate it if you would do. And Daniel, man, thank you so much for coming on. And at the end of the day, man, you shared from the heart, everything was like real actionable content. I know that you didn't hold anything back, you just came and gave, gave, gave. So if you guys are interested in, in amp up your content, like I am, definitely go and check out at my content and inbound assumption. Thanks so much, Daniel. I really appreciate you being here. I have a frickin awesome, awesome rest of your week and we'll talk to you soon, man.
Daniel: 01:04:49 Awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks guys.
Joe: 01:04:52 Thanks Daniel.
Daniel: 01:04:53 No worries.
